Boyfriend and Gay Porn

Hello Dr. Bill.

I have a little problem and I need your help.

Me and my boyfriend have been together for 2 years. We are in our late twenties. We are a great couple, respect each other, and have great sex life. He treats me well, is very honest with me, and his friends and family love me. We are planning to live together next month.

The problem is that I found gay porn on his lap top - and a lot of it. There's also straight porn in there, shemales, foot fetish porn, but the problem is that the gay porn is a lot, more than 50%! And it's not just website history, he has it downloaded and saved - both photos and videos. I've noticed that the porn downloaded from 2 years ago is mostly straight, but this year's porn is mostly gay. 

I have many close gay friends, and they never mentioned to me that my new boyfriend is weird. I support gays, but I believe it's bad for me and him to be together if he is a closeted gay, we might suffer more in the future when he admits, because we have a very serious relationship and might end up married!

I am sure that he loves me, and our love is not a lie, but I don't know if he has gay feelings which he is repressing, or he just likes weird porn. 

He is very religious, and for a period stopped having flings and adventures and was looking for the right girlfriend -- I am that right girlfriend.

He also says he doesn't have a problem with gay people, so he is neither homophobic, nor really supportive (he says it seems unnatural to him, but it's their private matter, so who is he to judge?) So, he's somewhere in the middle. I don't know what to make of it. [Thinking homosexuality is "unnatural" is homophobic!]

He says he never had a gay experience, but as all people, during high school wondered about his sexual orientation: straight, gay, bi? He never experimented to confirm, just realized he is straight.

I talked to him about porn, told him that I know he watches, and I don't like that he hides that from me. but I didn't tell him I had actually seen his porn folder. I told him it's very important to me to tell me what he watches, so that I know what he likes. At this point, he wasn't very defensive, he was open with me, told me he loves our sex life, but that he watches some weird porn and that doesn't mean he likes to try it. He mentioned the gay porn when giving me a short list of what had he watched, but didn't single it out. He said his father exposed him to pornography beginning at age six and he has always watched a lot of it.

One red flag though, is that when we were about 1 year together, I joked that he likes men, and because I had made that joke before, he snapped at me, but then was really sorry. It is weird because he is a very nice guy, and never before, nor after, has he offended me or raised his voice to me.

My only concern is that he might be a closeted gay/bi because of the porn, and I think that should be resolved for both our sakes. I have helped one gay friend of mine to get out of the closet, I know how it feels, but now since this is my boyfriend, it's totally different. And I am asking you and not my gay friends, because I believe if I tell anyone I will jeopardize my boyfriend's privacy and maybe hurt his feelings if he finds out I've been doubting or asking.

Please help me.

There's no easy answer to this one because there are cases of people who like to look at pornography in all of its varieties without necessarily wanting to engage in similar behavior, but when half of what he looks at is gay-oriented ...? Also, people who are very religious often repress their homosexual nature because they are dealing with issues of shame and guilt and denial. They try to satisfy their homoerotic urges by watching gay porn, figuring they're not really gay if they aren't actually having gay sex. His snapping at you when you joked about his liking men, especially if you didn't mean it in a nasty way, could mean that he's very touchy about the subject, another indication that he could be closeted. His feeling that homosexuality is "unnatural," as well. You can understand that if he feels that way and is privately gay/bi he is bound to have feelings of what we call "internalized homophobia" or self-hatred. And honestly, I don't believe that everyone wonders about their sexual orientation in high school. Mostly people who are gay or bisexual and a little confused.

His having looked at porn when he was a child is another issue. Showing a child pornography might even be considered a form of child abuse. Something more serious may have happened in his childhood that has made him confused over his sexuality.

The problem is that the only way to really learn the truth is to have a frank talk with your boyfriend -- without being negative or accusatory. As you say this needs to be resolved. There are far too many women who marry guys who finally come out of the closet years later, and it's devastating for them. If he has an attraction to men, he needs to deal with it and accept it, even if he needs professional help or at the very least counseling to do so. There is also the question, if he's bisexual, of whether his main attraction is to men or women. [In any case, if he has never fully explored his homosexuality, he will undoubtedly want to do so some day.]

Also, if he was abused or molested as a child, he should also seek counseling or therapy to help him deal with those issues. 

I'm sure you understand that there's just no way to be certain at this point, as frustrating as that may be for you. If he is able to resolve these issues, on his own or with help, it will at least help you to make a decision about a future with this man.

Brutal Porn Part Two

Dear Bill:

This is a tough one to write, because I think it's always hard for people to talk about "what they do on the Web" behind closed doors and out of sight. At least, no one I know -- even close friends who seem open about just about everything -- don't talk about their Web surfing much, and never about sex sites. [Some people do talk quite regularly about their various adventures on the web and on porn sites. Depends on the individual and often on how "out" they are -- Bill.]

I'm a 45-year-old gay male and most likely have watched no more and no less gay porn over the years than the average gay male (if there is such a thing), going way back to VHS tapes. But I've seen the variety of sex acts portrayed in gay porn expand wildly over that time, and especially in the last few years on the Internet. Some of what I see if highly disturbing to me and seems to cause a great deal of guilt and even depression because I feel, on some level, that it's really wrong for anyone to be filming these things, making money from it, and enjoying the watching of it.

Let me say at the outset that I don't make value judgments about ordinary people doing what they want to sexually in the privacy of their bedrooms, with consent, or even in clubs as long as no one is forced to do anything they didn't sign up for. Specifically, bondage and S&M aren't something that bother me if people are doing it because they enjoy it and they're genuinely making a choice that that is what gives them pleasure.[I agree.]

But I see larger and larger numbers of movies, and clips of movies, available online that truly involve brutal presentations of sexual-related acts in which guys clearly are in pain or extreme discomfort. The envelope is being pushed more and more each year and I think everyone knows it. These kinds of videos are mostly online -- I haven't seen many in stores. (Of course, I realize there are many straight videos like these and that this is not a gay phenomenon.)

Anyone browsing through free gay porn sites, I think, would not need explanation of what these videos entail, but they often portray quite young guys (who often look much younger) being tied up and subjected to various violent treatment and abuse (if that's the correct word) that, in the non-porn-production world, would be classified as assault, battery, torture, even rape. [Definitely sounds pretty creepy.]

I'm writing not merely to express dismay over what's increasingly being hawked for money by the porn industry, but to admit that I've developed a fascination and attraction to some of this stuff -- and it really bothers me and makes me feel pretty awful about myself. [Is it really this porn that makes you feel awful, or something deeper, some negative feelings you have about yourself that this porn brings out?]

It seems to me that people can get pleasure out of other people who are also getting pleasure, or seeing other people in pain. Our minds are complicated, and it doesn't take viewings of "Star Wars" episodes to realize that everyone has very good sides and very dark sides, and definite temptations to give in to the latter. I remember in high school English class our teacher asked us to give our personal definition of evil, and the best I could come up with was feeling pleasure at the pain of another. Now, folks in S&M probably would strongly disagree that they are anything close to evil, but that doesn't change the fact that watching these things is clearly both enticing to me but repellent, and I come away from them every time feeling sorry that I did watch.

If I were giving advice like you, I'd probably say, "You can't do anything about changing the porn industry or what happens to these actors. There are complicated reasons why people enjoy S&M, or bondage, and complicated reasons why these young actors get involved in porn. The only thing you can do is control your own actions and avoid videos that make you feel bad about your choices."

I think that would be good advice, [Yes!] and I'm trying now to make some pragmatic choices that would put that into effect. I actually set up a porn filter on my laptop that screens out sex sites, because I was spending way too much time on such things. Also, I found a porn addiction message board on the Web and registered, though frankly I don't know if I will be posting on it.

I guess my big worry is that I'll eventually just chuck the porn filter and go back to my old ways -- "binging" on sites that seem wrong to me, then feeling guilty and horrible, but perhaps not guilty enough to stop. And then wondering what all this says about my own values and ethics. I mean, in all other spheres of my life I think of myself as moral and kind and helpful to people. (I did used to talk about this with my therapist, who is now actually my ex-therapist, but he seemed somewhat clueless about it all. Not very familiar with these kinds of Web sites and clips, he thought that no one really feels pain in them and that all the actors are just faking. But surely the pain is often very real -- I mean, it's what the audience demands and the studios provide, right?) [I don't have all the answers to that, but you have to remember that you are not the one inflicting pain on these people.]

I know there's no simple answer to all this, but I wanted to know your general thoughts on the subject, how you view the Internet and how it can change people, and if you have any advice.

Thanks for your time, Bill

You raise a large number of issues. I did a post on this a few years back called Brutal Gay Porn but I have some other thoughts today. I confess I have not watched any of these brutal gay porn movies, and probably wouldn't want to. Are the actors actually in pain, or just pretending? I guess it's the difference between hard core and soft core, where in the former the participants are actually having sex, and in the latter they're just play-acting. Since people can be quite realistically and graphically dismembered and murdered in horror films, I imagine it's relatively easy to fake some S&M material, as well as pain and torture, in a porn film. [While I have no moral objections as such to either pornography or prostitution, I do know that, sadly, some people selling their bodies either on the street or having sex in front of a camera are desperate and perhaps being exploited as well.] 

But I have to say that torture and rape are not part of any S&M community that I know. Now you're getting more into CSI and Law and Order: Special Victims Unit than Star Wars -- I mean this isn't "kink," it's sick and criminal behavior. At the same time, if perfectly normal people can enjoy graphic violence in horror and action films, it's also possible that it's not abnormal to enjoy it in porn movies, although most people would not find it very sexy. You're watching [hopefully] phony recreations of aberrant acts, not participating in them. 

The deeper issue is what does enjoying degradation -- either your own or someone else's -- say about a person's sense of self-worth. All I can tell you is that members of the S&M/kink/fetish community have special needs and interests and look at things quite differently from the rest of us. When it comes to gay men, does self-hatred, which leads to hatred of other gay men or hatred of gay activity, have something to do with the obsession with hurting and degrading other men (or being "victim" of same)? You're right that gay members of the S&M community would probably object most strongly. Still most of the members of that community I've met are less interested in giving or enjoying another's pain than they are in role-playing -- the whole bondage and discipline and master/slave bit. [Undoubtedly many find that distasteful -- who would want to be a slave -- but in most cases it's mostly for extra titillation and never goes too far.]

If you think you're spending too much time watching these movies and especially if they make you feel bad about yourself, substitute something that won't create those negative feelings. It could be some deep-rooted internalized homophobia, shame or guilt over being gay, that might make you enjoy stuff in which men are brutalized and degraded. Only a gay or gay-friendly therapist can help you get to the root of it, and it's something you might consider if you find you can't stop watching the stuff and it only makes you feel worse and worse. 

Lastly, as for how the Internet can change people, well, it can certainly provide lots of fodder for fetishes -- healthy and less so -- of all kinds, and mini-communities of people who are into all sorts of shit [literally, some times]. In some cases this can help people feel less strange and alone, but sometimes it only makes a bad situation worse by feeding the fetish until it overtakes everything else. Again, a therapist can help in the latter cases.

Gay Men, Straight Porn

Hello Bill. I have a life long friend and he wants to do a straight porn video. He is gay so this sounds crazy. Would he be mentally damaged? Is there such a thing as gay men doing straight porn? Are there any gay men on record as having done str8 porn? Why would a straight studio hire gay men to fuck women?

I think there are actually a lot of gay men doing straight porn, although they may not identify as such. These are the same men who do gay porn but who insist that they are straight, or at least are leading straight lives -- and there are a lot of those.  If you want to get technical, these men are at least bisexual in some sense, but just can't take the next step in even admitting that, although they suck and fuck men as much as women for a living! Sad, really.

I don't know why your gay friend wants to do straight porn. Perhaps he thinks there's more money in it. Perhaps he's fallen pray to the out-dated, homophobic notion that you're not a "real man" unless you have sex with women. I assume he doesn't date women or sleep with them in a "regular" environment, so perhaps the whole thing has to do with his image or with money.

Being gay doesn't necessarily mean that a man finds women repulsive, or can't function with them. A gay man who sleeps with a woman probably won't be "mentally damaged," unless he gets the wrong idea that a "successful" [if undoubtedly unsatisfying] experience with a female means that he's heterosexual or even bi, when it generally doesn't.

I do get that you think he's being pretty silly, and he probably is. All he needs is one great experience with one hot guy and he'll probably forget all about doing straight porn!

Gay Porn on the Computer

Hi Bill, I am worrying myself for days since I found some links to a gay porn site on my and my boyfriend's computer. We have been living together for half a year and we are in a relationship for almost five years. I have never noticed he's into men in the past. However, we haven't had sex properly in so long that I don't even remember for how long. I suspected that he is cheating on me with another woman because he is chatting with a lot of girls on his facebook profile. A few days ago I even tried to talk with him about our problem and asked him if he is gay. He replied negatively and said that we both caused the situation we are in and have to work on it in the future. I was afraid to bring up the porn site. Today I saw that he went to that site again and I asked if he was watching it. He smiled at me and said no. I noticed he's visiting that site for a few months and has a username, " ----"  that makes me think he's confused about his sexual orientation. However, every time he visited the gay site he also visited heterosexual sites. I really need some help cause I don't know how to talk to him about that.

Well there are people that will tell you that straight guys have various reasons for looking at gay porn, but the number one reason is that they aren't straight. If he has some legitimate reason for looking at gay porn, why doesn't he discuss it openly with you? I also suspect that what you refer to as a porn site is actually a gay dating site with sexy and naked pictures of men on it. If he has registered on that site and has a user name it is probably because he wants to hook up with guys for sex, the chief purpose of those sites. 

You need to confront him on this issue in a non-accusatory and non-judgmental way. He may be going back and forth from gay and straight sites to try to convince himself he isn't gay, he could be bisexual [or at least thinks he is, but remember that most bi guys have a preference and it generally isn't women], or he's simply attracted to men but has ambivalent feelings about it. Does he come from a liberal background or a conservative one? How does he feel about gay people?

I suggest you tell him that you have a friend who is afraid her boyfriend is gay. This will start a discussion without necessarily focusing on him. Or at least talk about gay marriage, a hot topic, and see what his reaction is. There are men who are secretly homosexual, who seek out male sex partners, but who are so ashamed of it that they become quite homophobic and speak out against gay people in strongly negative terms, and that's usually a red flag. So is looking at gay porn and signing up with gay sex/dating sites. And so is not having any sex with your girlfriend for a long, long time. 

Some men in this position think that they aren't cheating on their wives or girlfriends if their sex partners are male, but of course that isn't the case. You also have to be concerned about whether or not he is using condoms during his possible past or future sex hook ups.

There is a strong possibility that your boyfriend is trying to come to terms with his homosexuality, and may even be struggling to come out or find some way to talk to you about it. You can help if you can get him to open up while being sympathetic.

His coming out will probably mean the end of your relationship, but at least you'll know what's up, and in the long run both of you will be better off for it, although it may not seem that way right now.

Boyfriend with Secrets

I have been with my boyfriend for almost three years, we recently had a baby girl in November. We have plans to get married and he seems excited about it, we even got the ring together. But I had snooped on his computer and found that he had been watching tranny porn, and found a video in his trash can of him masturbating. Furious, I texted him all upset and he left work to talk to me. He said he was just super stressed and it wasn't anything. He even told me that he joined a gay dating site back in February. But he deleted it after I found out about the porn. So even more curious I looked in his email and found a email between him and some guy talking dirty to each other and exchanging numbers. He felt like crap after I confronted him about it and said if I left he wouldn't have a reason to live and that he'd want to die. But every time I ask why he made a profile for a gay dating site he just says he doesn't want to talk about it. He told me he always liked watching tranny porn because it's like a girl being in control. But I don't understand. Is he hiding something? He won't open up anymore but I don't want to waste my time if he is gay. It's not fair to me. He even said he's not attracted to men at all. What is your opinion? What do I do?

Well, he's definitely hiding something. He refuses to talk about something which is of obvious concern to you -- his joining a gay dating site, among other things -- and the erotic emails with another guy are another red flag. A guy can have fetishes, and a man can be attracted to transsexual women -- who are, after all, women, regardless of the biological state they were born in -- without being gay, but often an attraction to trans women ["tranny" is no longer considered an acceptable term], many of whom still have a penis, and especially transvestites/drag queens, is a cover-up for an attraction to men. It sounds as if your boyfriend is in a very confused state of mind and could use some counseling. Men don't join gay dating sites or send sexy emails to guys because they're "stressed out." It sounds like he has an attraction to men that he is ashamed of and fighting, but if he thinks a heterosexual marriage will change him he's being delusional. Many guys in this position are scared to death of their feelings and cling to women as a lifesaver, at the very least hoping a marriage will lend them a heterosexual facade. [His threatening suicide is probably his way of expressing panic over the possibility of being outed, or of definitely being gay.] But you're right that this isn't fair to you -- or to him.

Tell him that the two of you have really got to have a talk. Don't be judgmental. If he wants to jerk off over certain fetishes it isn't the end of the world. If he's gay, it's a lot more problematic. Be cautious if he suggests that he's bisexual, as this can often be a convenient term and a cop-out. In any case, if his preference is men then he will eventually feel quite stifled in a marriage.

This is a difficult situation which requires patience, a lot of honesty, understanding and conversation. If there is a gay or LGBT center in your city, it might be a good idea for him to drop in and discuss his feelings and various issues with a sympathetic and knowledgeable counselor.

Porn Stars

Hi Dr Bill.I am a Asian person from Taiwan. I read your blog article "gay for pay." I want to ask u why are u so sure that all of gay porn stars are not straight?

Do u know someone who works in the gay porn company that they are really gay?

Well, I thought I explained it pretty well in that post you mention, but it never hurts to explore an interesting subject again. 

I do know people in the porn industry, but even if I didn't let's just say you can't tell me that a guy can spend many of his days sucking and fucking or being fucked by another guy and isn't just a little bit -- or a lot -- gay.  Many of the men who do gay porn do indeed lead "straight" lives in that they may have wives, girlfriends and children, but they would certainly have to be classified as bisexual at the very least. 

The whole idea of "rough trade" -- men who have sex with men but supposedly are heterosexual -- is a dated, pre-Stonewall [pre modern day Gay Liberation] concept. Some have argued that straight guys can have sex with men just as gay men have sex with women and simply put on a show, but that is ignoring the fact that even in this day and age there is a stigma attached to being gay, especially for "macho" males who are ashamed of their gay feelings. [Also the notion that there are straight men who want to have sex with men, popularized by an idiot gay therapist, is completely ludicrous!]

So ask yourself, why on earth would a 100% heterosexual male want to engage in actual sex acts with another man no matter how much he's paid? Surely there are easier and more fun ways of making a living. I also doubt the assertion that gay porn pays better than straight porn. Why should it? There's a lot more straight porn [and straight buyers] than gay porn, so financially it just doesn't add up. 

So the fact that some porn stars in gay-oriented films are married with children doesn't make them straight anymore than the married guy cruising the gay bar or the Internet for men to have sex with.

Outdated Obsession with "Straight" Men

Lately I've been seeing a trend that I, at least, find kind of disturbing. All these ads in gay magazines to "come see hot naked straight guys" at this or that web site; there's even a porn mag devoted to supposedly straight guys geared to gay men. Isn't this alleged obsession with straight guys kind of out-of-date? Out and Proud Joe.

To those of us who are Out and Proud, Joe, yes it certainly is out of date. Certainly a gay man can find any kind of man attractive, but an obsession with [supposedly] straight guys is decidedly pre-Stonewall. It harks back to those days when people referred to some gay men as being "straight-acting." We now know -- or certainly should know -- that the gay male community is very diverse; you can find any type or kind of man you want, from femme to butch and everything in between. There is no need to pursue straight guys. Jerking off over a hot model regardless of whatever his sexual orientation might be is one thing, but if a gay man finds it more exciting that the guy might be straight, well let's say I think he has issues.

Although they are definitely in the minority, even today there are self-hating homos who think of straight men as being the ultimate treat. Some will pretend that it's merely a test of their seductive powers, but in reality they are so wracked with internalized homophobia that they hate the idea of being with a gay man, whom they see -- like themselves -- as being inferior. A real man, to them, is a straight man. No well-adjusted gay man has this attitude, of course.

Then there's the fact that if a straight man "succumbs" and has sex with another man, he's not really or totally straight, a little catch-22 that seems to fly over the heads of these straight-obsessed gentlemen. And, yes, that's true even if they're getting paid for it. Some self-hating homos only have sex for money (as hustlers or porn actors) so they can convince themselves that they're not really gay, they're only doing it for cash. Surrrreee.

And don't get me started on this moronic notion that some men who actively seek out other men for sex (outside of prison) are actually heterosexual.

Lastly, I recall an ad for one of these gay-oriented "straight guy" web sites which shows a guy riding off on a motorcycle with another guy as he leaves "the bitch" -- his girlfriend -- behind in the dust. This plays into another out-dated and especially unfair and pernicious notion that gay men are all ultimately misogynous.

Many of these sites, ads and magazines are not put together by gay people. And if they are, they are not what I'd call Out and Proud or at least up to date gay people with modern-day attitudes about gay men. They trade on stereotypes. For money.

I would suggest if one likes to go to sexy web sites, watch porn films, and the like, that you frequent those sites and purchase those films that feature openly, happily gay men.

And leave the "straight" or closeted ones to the self-hating homos.

As you can see, I have no opinion on this issue, LOL.

Straight Men Don't Do Gay Porn

Why do straight men do gay porn? Anon.

They don't.

Men who have sex with other men with the cameras rolling and even with a paycheck waiting are no more "straight" than I am. Those who have wives and girlfriends may be technically bisexual. But straight? Some people say there's more money to be made in gay porn and that's why they do it, but how can that be when it stands to reason that straight porn sells a lot better, there presumably being many more straight men (and straight porn fans) than gay.

Porn star Michael Lucas was once asked if certain performers in his gay porn films were really straight, and he gave a good answer, something along the lines of how they lead "straight lifestyles" but were "very enthusiastic" whether they were doing gay or straight porn. Let's say he was tactful and leave it at that.

Straight?

I don't think so.

Many so-called "gay for pay" people are, sadly, ashamed of their lusts for men but indulge in those lusts because -- let's face it -- sex is a powerful force. If they're porn stars or prostitutes they can say to themselves and everyone else: "See I'm not gay. I'm just doing it for the money."

Matt Sanchez is a particularly pernicious example of this.

To say it's "pre-Stonewall" is an understatement.

Gay Pride should have wiped away these negative feelings, but for some people it's darkest before the dawn.

Gay Men and Porn

Are gay men more interested in porn than straight men? Anon.

I don't know of any studies being done on this (what a waste of time and money!) but I'd be willing to bet that gay men are no more interested in pornography than straight men are. Why should they be? Some men (and women) are very stimulated by pornography and use it to enhance their sex lives -- or as a substitute. Other men have vivid imaginations and don't even need porn for stimulation. And there are men, gay and straight, who have no particular interest in pornography at all. True, you can sometimes see gay porn on the TV screen in a gay bar, while -- to my knowledge, at least -- you never see straight porn in a straight singles bar -- undoubtedly because some of the female customers (and some guys) might find it sexist and objectionable -- but straight porn is certainly shown at bachelor and stag parties and in certain For (straight) Men Only clubs.

Brutal Gay Porn on the Web

Dear Dr. Bill: I'm a gay man and for years I've realized that I'm intrigued and fascinated (OK, turned on) by porn movies or pictures that depict heavy-duty bondage and BDSM activities. Sometimes these are quite brutal. Undoubtedly I'm not alone: There are clearly tons of Web sites devoted to this fetish, as well as large sections of video stores. (I don't really know what goes on in leather bars or clubs.) The thing is...this stuff tends to really bother me, in the sense that I worry whether it's moral, whether it's good for the "victim" or exploitative, whether it's good for society and the gay community...and what it says about the people who salivate over this kind of stuff (including, now and then, me). I don't want to sound preachy or judgmental. I'm just concerned that it might NOT be a good thing that people (not only gays) are routinely giving in to their "dark side" these days and getting pleasure from pain, and calling it normal.

I mean, a few decades ago this probably would have been viewed as highly abnormal or wrong, yet the widespread presence of the Internet has made it all seem acceptable and commonplace. I remember many years ago in high school, a teacher asked us to define evil, and I said something like, "Getting pleasure from someone else's suffering." To me, that's still a pretty decent definition ... yet I wonder how the present fascination with the erotic side of pain fits in with that definition.

Yesterday I was bored and horny and used my credit card to pay for a month's membership on a gay bondage/pain Web site...the usual pics and videos of cute young gays being restrained on tables and crosses and abused (seemingly or in reality -- sometimes it's hard to say). After a few hours of this I felt really bad about myself and a bit depressed that this is not a moral activity for anyone ... that it's harmful to me, harmful to the actor, harmful to society. You might say that no one is harmed if everyone is consenting and going into it knowingly. But I feel bad that these young guys may be taken advantage of in the worst way and might be forced to go through these activities because of bad lives (poverty, addiction, etc.). If they need money desperately, is it really their free will?

I realize that every person's psyche is painted with both light and dark colors, that it's likely that ANY person can be aroused by either ecstasy or agony. No one is above feeling pleasure when someone else is suffering. But should it be such a widespread entertainment phenomenon? What does that say about us, if instead of repressing it we are turning it into a huge industry? Decades from now, what will be happening in these movies as the envelope is pushed more and more? Or have I just been watching too many scenes with Yoda and Vader in"Star Wars" movies? It would be great to hear your thoughts and readers' comments. P.

Thanks for your question. This may sound odd, but while I was reading it I was reminded of the debate over horror comics of the fifties, and mad slasher films of the 70's, and so on. What's that got to do with gay S&M porn? Horror comics and slasher films (or splatter movies) are dark and brutal and lots of perfectly normal people love them. Lots of people like to venture into the dark side now and then -- look at the popularity of Stephen King, Clive Barker (gay, by the way) -- and all the top-grossing super-gruesome horror flicks that abound (with victims dispatched in the most graphic, terrible ways). Most of these books and movies have a strong (generally hetero) erotic component to them. Now imagine if they had homoerotic twists... The violence in many of these films has often been considered pornographic. It troubles many people that this kind of stuff is considered entertainment -- it's troubled me at times -- yet most of the people watching these movies and reading these books (myself included) are not abnormal.

Now let's look at gay (or for that matter straight S&M porn). For that matter, let's look at the whole leather/S&M scene, which is not strictly gay but has historically been a big part of gay culture. On the one hand, we have leather fetishists who simply enjoy the feel and look of leather -- it makes them feel sexy and they are attracted to men with the same look. Not every leather fetishist is into S&M (sadomasochism) or B& D (bondage and discipline, a milder form of S&M).

I remember a friend once saying to me that the leather/s&m scene "wasn't about beating somebody up." It could be as simple as adding some titillation or "kinkiness" to a sexual episode. Or it could be a complete "lifestyle." I have known couples who live as slave and master, with one being dominant and the other submissive, but it was simple role-playing, something that turned them on. Again, it wasn't about "beating somebody up." Tying somebody up and having (consensual) sex with them when their movements are constricted, spanking or smacking somebody's bottom, seem like fairly harmless activities to me. [However, one should never allow someone you don't know well, or fully trust, to tie you up, blindfold you, or anything along those lines.]

I go to leather bars sometimes because I enjoy the masculine atmosphere, but I'm not there on the nights when you must wear regulation leather outfits. There are, admittedly, things about the scene that I'm unfamiliar with, and things that disturb me. Rightly or wrongly, the leather scene is seen as one where there is sexual experimentation of a more outre kind. For instance, fist-fucking. But it would probably be very unfair or inaccurate to suggest that every habitue of a leather bar is into extreme sex or total kinkiness.

What's most troubling to me about the extreme S&M scene is the aspect of degradation. Do some gay men want to suffer physical pain or humiliation due to internalized homophobia? Years ago I was on a radio program with a slave-type whose comments about feeling miserable and degraded ran counter to everything I believed as a gay man and activist. When I mentioned this he said that I just didn't get it. The whole point for him was to feel miserable and degraded. That's what turned him on. Conversely, do some gay men want to abuse/degrade other gay men because of their own self-hatred, only turned onto someone else? Is it a good thing to be aroused by being degraded or by wanting to degrade others? You can see the problem. (And how to explain heterosexuals who are into pain and degradation? I suppose even straights can have issues relating to self-worth.)

However, it would be all too easy to be simplistic. The leather/s&m community is undoubtedly as diverse as the larger gay or GLBT community. A lot depends on one's personal preferences. As an example, there are some people who would call being urinated on an act that is completely degrading to them. Others would say, "big deal, it's harmless. Just take a hot shower after a golden shower and who cares?" There was a time people thought performing fellatio or being sodomized was degrading but today we're more enlightened. Still, many people would rather keep waste products out of a sexual episode.

I suppose as long as it sticks to role playing and titillation, I can't see any harm to SMBD either in reality or in porn. But if someone is at the point where they can only be turned on by extreme mental and physical suffering and degradation ... ? Not healthy, I'm afraid. However, just because one enjoys it in a movie doesn't mean that's the only way they can get off in real life.

As for the actors in these films and the possibility that they're being exploited. Certainly some porn actors (and hustlers) have been desperate people who were exploited by the industry, but more often people go into these films for the excitement, the sex, and the money. I imagine the acts in hardcore S&M films are probably not simulated, just as they are simulated in soft core porn. Even in hardcore films a lot of it is probably play-acting like wrestling.

Ultimately, you're not really getting pleasure from somebody's suffering because a.) most of it is staged and b.) even if it isn't, they're not "suffering" if they enjoy it. Okay, that's probably a cop-out. But, whatever the situation, you're still just watching actors in a movie. If you enjoy their suffering it may be no different than the way the audience anxiously awaits the next victim to get slaughtered in a mad slasher film. Disturbing, maybe. But not necessarily something to worry about.

I'll end for now with a laugh. Years ago I was with a friend in a [non-leather] bar when I took my belt off and jokingly slapped it against his ass a few times as he bent over. After a minute or two it became serious; we were both enjoying it. Later on one of the two bartenders told me, "We don't like that sort of thing in here -- take it down to the docks!" The other bartender told me: "That's the most exciting thing that's happened here in years!"

So you see -- different strokes (pun intended)!