Gay Men vs. Lesbians?

I have some gay friends who insist that lesbians hate gay men, and since I've never had that experience, I wonder where this is coming from? Is this some kind of sexism or even homophobia? I was very disturbed by the attitudes of some people. P.S. I am a gay man in my forties.

Let me make it clear that well-adjusted gay people, those who accept themselves and don't have a problem with their sexuality, generally don't have the kind of blatant prejudices that afflict so much of society, gay or straight. I once participated in a conversation on just this subject -- lesbians hating gay men -- and, as I'm sure you did, found it to be ridiculous. The "evidence" of this alleged prejudice was all anecdotal. One bartender told me a lesbian waitress was rude to him in a restaurant, so this, of course, means that lesbians all hate gay men. Could he even be sure she was a lesbian, and did her bad attitude have anything to do with his being gay? Probably not. I mean, once a lesbian bartender was kind of unpleasant to me, but she is vastly outnumbered by other gay women whose attitudes were perfectly nice and professional. I think the few gay men who feel this way are defensively covering up their own negative attitudes toward women.

Let me also make it clear that gay men all hating women and lesbians all hating men (gay or straight) is in this day and age indicative of ludicrous stereotyping. Are there some lesbians who may dislike some or all gay men, or men in general, and are there some gay men or men in general, who have issues with women, be they straight or gay? Yes. But generally these are based on one or more bad experiences, which don't really add up to any kind of scientific survey. The truth is, there are gay people who may simply be indifferent to the opposite sex, which is often misinterpreted as "hatred." On the other hand -- and this is very important --  many gay men and lesbians have formed warm and life-lasting friendships with one another.

During this debate with some acquaintances, one guy said that it was simply that his experiences were different from mine. This is true, of course, but a person shouldn't base his attitudes on his own experiences, however valuable, alone. A person should learn and know about other people's experiences as well before forming a judgment. Also, it is often how we interpret personal experience that makes the difference.

That being said, in my experience, lesbians do not in general hate gay men or vice versa. Dare I say it's only fucked up people who have such antediluvian attitudes.

Dresses and Cleavage in a Bear Bar

Dr. Bill. I hang out at a bar that might be called a bear bar. Now and then a woman comes in from a bar up the street that is known as a drag queen hang-out. I say woman because I believe she is transgendered. She is probably a nice enough person, but she is, unfortunately, rather shrill, borderline obnoxious, and doesn't really fit in with the atmosphere of this bar. Worse, she walks around with money sticking out of her substantial cleavage and encourages the customers to stick money in her boobs. Many of the guys are good sports, but I find this behavior kind of sleazy, as she is not an entertainer for this bar. I'm afraid if I say anything I'll be called a bigot, but I'm also afraid if she isn't discouraged -- especially from soliciting cash -- she'll bring several of her friends to do the same thing. I have nothing against drag queens/transsexuals, but if I wanted to hang out with them I'd go to the bar where they work and hang out. What do I do? I like this bar with its masculine gay atmosphere but if it becomes a drag queen hang-out it will be ruined for me and for most of the customers.

My advice is to wait awhile and see what happens. This gal may just come in for an occasional drink, but if she continues soliciting for cash you have a right to say something to the bouncer or manager. Most gay bars (unless they're outright hustler bars) won't put up with men soliciting cash let alone women or drag queens.

Not everyone finds the drag/ transgender scene entertaining or even relevant in these "bear" days, and I can well understand that an "invasion" of drag queens/trans women would certainly change the atmosphere and dynamics of the bar. There are places that are more appropriate for drag queens. It doesn't make you a bigot if you simply prefer to hang out with guys dressed as guys. After all you are attracted to men. But don't over-react to something that may never become a problem.

Frankly -- and I'm being very politically incorrect here -- I find the drag scene a little passe, although you are right that nowadays many of these "guys" have actually transitioned into gals, although they may retain their penises. Somehow transvestism and transsexuality have become so cemented in the public's mind with homosexuality that far too many people think if you're a gay man you want to wear dresses, which is far, far from the truth. I don't believe we should be transphobic -- transsexuals don't have an easy time of it -- but if a scene is not of interest to you, it just isn't. When it comes to drag shows, for instance -- guys (or gals) in dresses lip-syncing to records -- well, I would sooner have root canal surgery without anesthetic than sit through any more of them.

Like anybody else, most drag queens are nice people and can be a lot of fun, but we certainly know that some of them can be -- well, as you put it -- "shrill and borderline obnoxious," which is true of a lot of people, of course. Because they're ignored by most of the customers, some straight women become very drunk and shrill and difficult in gay bars, and we've all seen our share of "queens" who get all loud and squealing and silly when they've had too much. The transgender community is diverse, of course, and the "shrill," overbearing, over-dressed female has become a stereotype. Not every drag queen/trans woman is like Ru Paul (not that I have anything against Ru Paul). Drag/transgender entertainers -- like any entertainer -- need attention, and if they don't get it ...

Hang tight. Chances are this gal will ultimately want to hang out where she gets more appreciation -- and money.

Homophobia is Alive and Well

I wanted to draw your attention to a podcast I listened to today that I personally found a bit disturbing.

http://podcastone.com/Bret-Easton-Ellis-Podcast

It's a weekly podcast hosted by the author Bret Easton Ellis, where he discusses Hollywood, movies and popular culture with a different celebrity guest each week. 

This week his guest was actress turned director Rose McGowan, who organized the "Gay-in" at the Beverly Hills Hotel in May this year, in protest against the anti-gay laws in Brunei.

She's very articulate and makes some good points about, for example, people being hypocrites by boycotting the hotel while doing business with Saudi Arabia. But unfortunately during the interview (listen from 27:30 to 42:00) she launches into a rant about the gay community and gay men in particular.

She accuses gay men of being misogynistic, in her own words "just as, if not more, misogynistic than straight men." This really upset me, because although some gay men can be very disrespectful towards women, referring to them as "cunts" or "sluts", [straight men, too -- Bill] I know a great many gay men who have fantastic friendships with women, and are very supportive of gender equality and feminism. [Hear! Hear!] What really got my goat, however, was when she asserted that "not one single gay man has spoken out in support of women." Here I call bullshit. [You said it!]

I'd really appreciate if you could listen to that segment of the show, because I've heard this opinion voiced so many times by so many different people, and it always upsets me. I'd love to have a really pithy come-back when people say that to me! I think such a common accusation leveled against gay men would make a great topic for Ask Dr Bill. What do you think?

Btw it's the podcast dated 10/6/2014.

Darren 

Many thanks for calling my attention to this. I agree that that old stereotype of gay men as women-haters -- which is essentially what this lady is saying -- should have fallen by the wayside by now. How a man thinks about women [or some women] depends on the individual man -- not on his sexual orientation. 

Rose McGowan is a young lady who seems unaware of a lot of facts about the gay community and the gay rights struggle as well as the community's relationship to other human rights organizations. Many years ago New York's Gay Activists Alliance, the country's first militant [non-violent] Gay Rights group decided to focus on gay rights only because in previous groups the members -- also committed to black rights, women's rights, etc. -- were so busy rushing off to one rally after another that they never got anything done pertaining to gay rights. GAA supported other organizations and the members could selectively choose to attend any rallies etc. that they wanted to, but if they hadn't stayed focused on gay rights they never would have achieved anything. You can say the same thing about gay groups that followed, and women's and black groups as well. NOW [National Organization of Women] may well have supported gay causes but you can believe they stayed focused on feminism or they would have accomplished little. McGowan seems to think that because some states have gay marriage that the whole struggle is over and gay groups should just disband or lend a hand elsewhere. For heaven's sake, didn't the fact that the gay movement expanded to become the LGBT movement, embracing and including bisexuals and transsexuals, prove that many Gays and Lesbians were not solely focused on themselves? Besides, with the scary things going on in Russia, China, Turkey, and other nations pertaining to gay/human rights violations, only a totally self-absorbed stereotypical "Hollywood" type would think there is no homophobia anymore. That's just as ridiculous as saying there's no racism or sexism. Or is that just "narcissistic gay self-victimization" as Ellis calls it? [More on that later.]

Well-adjusted gay men are not misogynous -- either toward straight women or lesbians -- and as you rightly point out many have loving relationships with females. Self-hating gay men may have issues, but it's simple ignorance for McGowan to "indict" gay men and suggest that most, if not all, fall into the sexist category.  In my experience there is often a bond between many gay men and women, both of whom have been subjected to abuse by what used to be called the "hetero-sexist" society. I have personally met many male "feminists" and I myself have supported women's rights my entire adult life. McGowan is taking incidents -- unpleasant gay men she has met -- and using them to back up her theory, which is so homophobic in one sense [the old "gay men hate women" canard] that it's almost scary. I am not familiar with her work, which hardly makes me a woman-hater, but she has perhaps on occasion gotten negative reactions for one thing or another from men who happen to be gay and allowed this to knock her scales out of whack. 

Not to slander heterosexual men, and not to indulge in the kind of generalizations that characterize Ms. McGowan's thinking concerning gay men, but I think "straight" men in general are a lot more misogynous than gay men. It usually isn't Out and Proud gay men who rape women, batter their wives, become deadbeat daddies and so on. Gay Men don't get sore at women due to romantic disappointments. Sure, there are fucked up gay men out there, but to say they are typical of the community is ludicrous and offensive. 

I have a feeling McGowan doesn't mean to be homophobic, but is speaking out of simple ignorance. Both she and Ellis exhibit that kind of [admittedly stereotypical] lopsided, off the cuff, kind of superficial thinking that seemingly dismisses people who fight for gay rights or have concern for gay issues as merely belonging to a cult of victimization or as being "morons." Some people actually care about gays in other countries who are suffering terrible abuses; others just care about themselves or what's going on with their careers, no matter how much they may protest otherwise. It's like "Some bitchy queens diss my work -- gee the gay male community must be fucked up." 

And consider where Ms. McGowan is hoping to find men [gay or straight] who are progressive and committed to women's rights [or gay rights for that matter]: Hollywood? (Forgive me if I'm indulging in some stereotyping of my own.) Even Ellis doesn't seem much committed to anything; perhaps in this I'm unfair but he gives no opposition to McGowan's words.

Sadly, you can always find men of whatever persuasion who have a problem with women (and vice versa). To suggest that most or all gay men have that problem ignores both history and reality.

If you want a comeback when someone brings this up to you again say: "I don't have a problem with women; maybe you have a problem with men like me."

Who's "Macho" and Who Isn't

I know that some gay men are effeminate and others aren't. What is the difference? Are the gay men who sleep with women, who are bisexual, more masculine than men who just sleep with other men?

Well, I would have to say definitely not, and not just judging by the number of "big queens" I've met who have or have had girlfriends or insist they're bisexual.

Most gay men are not stereotypical, and their outward demeanor -- be it butch or femme -- generally provides no clue to what they do in bed or whom they prefer to sleep with. There are "queeny" guys who are Tops, and very masculine men who are Bottoms. Macho guys who only sleep with guys, and not-so-macho men who [want to] sleep with other men but have wives or girlfriends.

In other words, it's a highly individual matter. In general, men who identify as bisexual -- rightly or wrongly -- do not have a more masculine demeanor than guys who identify as gay. Some, unfortunately, think they are more masculine because of the out-dated, pre-Stonewall thinking that says a man isn't a man unless he has sex with women. I don't need to comment on how tiresome and self-defeating that attitude is, but it does account for the "bisexual" label more often than many would like to admit.

Bill's Media Watch: 306

I have to say I really hated a movie called "306", written, produced and directed by [to my surprise] an Out filmmaker named Elliot London.What's even more disturbing is that it's being called a "gay" movie.

The film, which runs about ten minutes, has no dialogue. It shows a young man, who lives with his lover, receiving a text message to take over a shift. It's not bartending, but hustling, as the young man arrives at a hotel room where an older man gives him a drink, a blowjob, and then sodomizes him, apparently without using a condom. The young man, looking disgusted and disheartened, goes home and climbs into bed with his lover, to whom he mouths the words "I love you so much" as he hugs -- her. 

The ending isn't really a surprise. What's surprising is that a young Out filmmaker would make such a regressive movie. Yes, one could argue that it looks at all of those sad men out there who are gay but who can't and won't identity as such (don't get me started on "gay for pay") -- call boys with girlfriends, married men who screw hustlers in hotel rooms -- but there have already been so many books and movies and plays about those men who live in the shadows of gay life, do we really need another one in the 21st century that adds nothing to the discussion? And what are we to think of the "hero?" He has unsafe sex for money, then goes home to sleep, literally and figuratively, with his presumably unsuspecting girlfriend.[Bet she'll be contacting Dr. Bill any day now.]

Frankly, most male prostitutes tend to be self-hating losers. The guy in this movie, who is attractive and seems intelligent and upwardly mobile, would probably not be a hustler in a million years, especially if he's so full of internalized homophobia that he thinks of himself as straight. There may be other reasons why he's "acting out" -- insecurity, an attraction to men, certainly -- but the movie doesn't go into them.

"306" presents the outdated image of homosexuality as being something negative, dirty, something to be ashamed of, while the hero's hetero relationship is almost presented as if it were pure and perfect [until she finds out he's given her HIV, of course]. And if the character is supposed to be "bisexual," the contrast between his straight long-term relationship and his comparatively sleazy, casual gay "encounters" is so homophobic as to be mind-boggling! On the odd chance that London meant his film as a cautionary tale for women -- ladies, do you know what your boyfriend is really up to when he's somewhere else? -- it backfires badly; it just doesn't come off. 

What was London thinking? Or was he even thinking? So many things could have been said and done with this little movie and its small cast and settings. 

A muffed opportunity and a complete waste of ten minutes.

Cross-dressing

How prevalent is cross-dressing in the gay male community?

Before I answer that I have an anecdote. Some years ago I read an interview with an actor on a soap opera who'd just been told that his character was going to turn out to be gay. He told the interviewer, "I guess I'll have to go out and buy some dresses." I thought: Why? The character was gay and not a transvestite [or cross-dresser].

There has always been a frankly ridiculous link in the public's mind between homosexuality and transvestism. The fact is that the vast majority of gay men are happy being men and haven't the least interest in dressing up as women. Because flamboyant drag queens [gay transvestites] have always been a hard-to-ignore part of gay culture, people have mistakenly believed that more gay men are cross-dressers than actually are. In reality, most male transvestites are actually heterosexual [or at least identify as such]; they lead straight lives but enjoy dressing up as women, touching and wearing female underwear, and the like -- it's a fetish.

So to answer your question: cross-dressing is not very prevalent at all in the gay male community, although due to popular culture and coverage in some of the sillier gay magazines it may sometimes seem that way. With the emergence of the bear community, I'd have to say that drag is even seeming a little passe these days.

Gay or Just Stereotypical?

Dear Bill, I've recently started seeing a guy from my work, let's call him Joe, and I'm having suspicions that he is gay. A few people at work have also thought he was gay including an openly gay man who was surprised when he asked Joe if he was gay to hear that he wasn't and responded by saying he is usually right with his "gaydar." Joe has also admitted to having a good gaydar. In addition to that clue, he also sits with his legs crossed, tries to give me fashion advice when we go shopping (but also complains that I take too long in the store), he was the lead in his high school musicals, he watches dancing shows on tv, he refers to his best friend as his heterosexual life partner (his friend is married to a woman), and when I told him that he and his friend look like a gay couple, he said that a lot of people say that and they've just accepted it. He also says "I'm so gay haha" when he does something gay, such as give me fashion advice, he also is close friends with a gay man who he used to work with. He admits to thinking certain men are attractive, but he says that more about girls; he's been in two long term relationships with women and has no trouble having sex, and is actually constantly horny. I have not asked him about any gay desires or relationships. But I asked him why he thinks people think he is gay and he responded "because I don't care what other people think of me and I'm flamboyant and I sit with my legs crossed." I don't know if I should confront him on a more serious level, because it's all been joking so far, and he is ok with joking about being gay, and I am uncomfortable with looking through his messages. Please give me your opinion, I don't know what to think.

I think you and "Joe" both need to stop stereotyping gay [and straight?] men. I don't know if this guy is gay but it sounds just as likely to me that he's a straight guy who simply rings some gay-stereotype bells, and I personally can't wait until all of society, gay and straight, has gotten past them. I'm a gay man and I never give fashion advice, don't cross my legs in a feminine manner, can't stand those awful dancing shows on TV, and wouldn't have been caught dead being the lead in a musical in high school. Since this is true of many of the gay men of my acquaintance, it is entirely possible that the opposite is also true and this guy really is hetero. You have to remember that not all male fashion designers, musical comedy stars, or even hairdressers are gay; in fact, most aren't. Frankly, Joe doesn't do himself or anyone else [especially gay men] any favors when he goes on about being "so gay" just because he's giving fashion advice and the like. Most gay men couldn't give a shit about ladies or men's fashions. Most of us are just average Joes -- pun intended -- that happen to be gay. Those stereotypical gay men who are effeminate and go on about fashion and divas may seem to be everywhere, but they are only one small portion of the large gay male community.

That being said, "Joe" could still be homosexual [or perhaps bisexual, if you want to get technical, in that he dates/sleeps with women] but only he knows for sure. Check my post on Asking Your Boyfriend If He's Gay for more advice.

Bill's Media Watch: Recent "Gay" TV Characters

Well, I'm not certain I'd call the characters on the shows Revenge [ABC] and The Following [Fox] gay or sexually ambiguous -- rather they seem to be gay only when the script calls for it.

Revenge, which was created by Mike Kelley and just finished its second season, deals with a young woman, Emily, who ruthlessly gets even with anyone who had a hand in framing and killing her innocent father. He was accused of being a terrorist and of downing a plane with hundreds of people aboard [these people and their grieving relatives seem rarely if ever to be mentioned].

There are no actual out and proud gay characters on this supposedly hip program. There was a nutty, now-deceased fellow who told his girlfriend he slept with another character, Nolan, only as a power play -- he wasn't gay [sure]. As for Nolan, played by Gabriel Mann, it's hard to know what to make of him. I don't know anything of Mann's private life, but he plays the supposedly bisexual character as if he were channeling every soap opera diva he'd ever seen, including Joan Collins. He's not a bad actor, but you have to take his Nolan with a large grain of salt. He acts so swish at times that when they gave Nolan an alleged romance with a woman it was so unconvincing as to be laughable, and the two actors had little erotic chemistry. I don't recall Nolan going to bed with this gal, and the only man we ever have seen him with is the aforementioned psychopath [an ex-boyfriend briefly appeared], but both of them wound up dead, so maybe getting involved with Nolan is slightly dangerous to your health. In the first season the wimpy Nolan allowed himself to be bossed around shamefully by the often tyrannical Emily, whom he calls "Ems" -- isn't that precious [although even some of the straight male characters have followed suit]? During the second season he seemed to develop some balls as regards to Emily -- just as he was falling for a female  -- making you wonder what kind of message the show is supposed to be sending -- assuming a program like Revenge has enough on its mind to send any kind of message. In any case, Revenge  is getting too complicated and moving too far away from its central premise, and Nolan remains an irritating character. Revenge seems determined to avoid any real gay relationships, be they healthy or dysfunctional, and so far the only "queer" characters have been either mentally disturbed or blatantly stereotypical. [We won't even go into the nasty gal, almost an evil lesbian, who claimed she was having an affair with another female character, but supposedly wasn't.] Bad show, Kelley.

Things are even stranger on The Following, which was created by openly gay screenwriter Kevin Williamson. The premise of the show, which is intriguing, is that a certain charismatic serial killer named Joe Carroll has developed a cult of equally sociopathic sycophants, who have infiltrated society and the police force and will do anything he tells him, including murdering his enemies. It would have been nice had Williamson included a gay FBI agent [not a white bread character, necessarily, but at least someone heroic], but he probably thought he was being unpredictable by going another route. Two of "followers" are assigned to keep watch on Carroll's ex-wife by pretending to be a gay couple next door, only neither are gay. [Apparently playing gay will make them seem less threatening or something.] Only it turns out that at least one of the two guys is attracted to the other, and is becoming accepting of his homosexuality, while the other one, who also seems to be attracted to his "partner," is in denial [or could be another supposedly bisexual character]. Anyway, as the show wound up its first season earlier this year, the conflicted partner murdered the gay one [his first kill was of the man who loved him], supposedly to keep him out of the hands of the police, but is also on the outs with his former girlfriend. The trouble with The Following is that many members of the following seem much too intelligent and together to be members of a cult, as such groups mostly attract utter losers. Another problem is that the "queer" characters on the show are all seriously disturbed or full of old-fashioned self-hatred. Admittedly, their sexual orientation may not be responsible for their sick psychology, but even so. . .  Flawed human beings are one thing, psychos another. Williamson may be going somewhere with this, but I won't be around for the second season to find out. Plenty of drama could have been worked up by having a gay FBI agent; substituting a couple of murderous freaks is hardly the way to go. Bad show, Williamson.

Who's the Butcher?

Do bisexual men, I mean men who may at one time have been married and had children, tend to be less stereotypical and more masculine than men who are strictly gay and have never been with women?

First, just because a man has been married [to a woman] had sex with women, or fathered children in the biological way doesn't necessarily make him genuinely bisexual -- but that's for another post.

Most, but certainly not all, gay men do a little experimenting in their younger days, some fooling around with the opposite sex, until they get it on with a guy and realize they've found what they're really looking for, and most have little interest in pursuing heterosexual relationships after that or toying with women's affections. Whether a man is stereotypically gay or not has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of experience he's had with women. I've met very masculine guys who've never had sex with a female, and very effeminate men who not only sleep with both men and women [without necessarily being bisexual] but have gotten married and fathered children. I'll never forget a party I went to one summer when there was a guy swishing around the room proudly showing off his wife and their new baby. If there are macho gay guys there are also effeminate straight guys, but somehow I didn't get the impression this fellow was especially straight.

I discovered over many years that the more you try to pigeonhole and stereotype the members of the gay and related communities, the more your expectations -- if your eyes are really open -- will be confounded.

Boyfriend Who Supposedly Acts "Gay"

My boyfriend loves to imitate gay men; he has even put on my wig and bra and paraded around the house in front of me and my sister. I told him that I was uncomfortable with that behavior and not to do it again. Several weeks later he starts acting like he is gay, snapping his fingers with his hands on his hips. Recently, we spent the night over my girlfriend's house with her and her husband -- they were delighted to have us over. Well, we started drinking and then he starting playing like he was gay and when my girlfriend told him to stop, she and her husband were uncomfortable with the behavior --  she asked him if he was gay; he laughed and said 'No, I'm a homo fag-tug fag, no.' [What? -- Dr. B] We laughed at him and he stopped with the act. Later that night us women stayed upstairs and the men stayed down stairs in the living room -- my girlfriend's husband told us the next morning that he put on my earring in front of him as a joke -- is my boyfriend gay? 

Your boyfriend may be an asshole but I'm not certain he's gay. I'm also not sure why you and your friends were uncomfortable with his behavior -- because he was stereotyping and making fun of gay men and/or confusing them with transvestites, or because you yourself are uncomfortable around gay people, especially the more stereotypical kind?

First of all, gay men do not put on wigs and bras and act all limp-wristed and girlish. That is a stereotype. Most gay men are just average, perfectly masculine guys who happen to be gay. Trust me on this -- I am, after all, a gay man and should know. Men who like to put on women's garments such as bras are transvestites, not homosexuals, and many of them are straight.

It's possible that your boyfriend isn't imitating gay men at all, but acting "campy" and silly, actually imitating women,just because he thinks it's funny. A great many comedians, straight and gay, have dressed and camped it up as women for laughs. Putting on a wig and bra to get some chuckles out of his friends hardly makes your boyfriend a true transvestite let alone a gay man.


Again, it's one thing if you and your friends object because you think he's making fun of [stereotypical] gay men -- another thing if it simply bothers you because you think he's "queer." Finally, the proper reaction to someone using the highly offensive word "fag" is to tell them to go fuck themselves!

Possibly Gay Boyfriend

Dear Bill,

I have been dating this guy for almost a year now. He is good in bed and stares at women. However, he has very gay mannerisms.[I assume you mean stereotypical mannerisms as most gay men are not "limp-wristed hairdressers" -- Bill]  He cares about his dressing, he takes longer to shower than I do, all his male friends are gay except one. He grinds with them in public, he holds hands with his best friend, who is gay. This behavior appalls me [presumably because it's your date and not because you have a problem with gay behavior -- Bill]and I don't know what to do. Everybody thinks he is gay. I asked him sweetly about it and he says he doesn't know how to act like a bro because he grew up among women. He has 2 sisters and lives with his mom. His parents are divorced. He says he always found it easier to make friendships with gay men. I asked him about his sexual history and he said he has never done anything sexual with a guy. Most of my friends are gay too, so when we go out to gay clubs and gay guys hit on him, he enjoys the attention and proudly talks to them and then later on he will introduce me as his girlfriend. He is also quick to point out a good looking man on television. I am confused about his behaviour. Please help me before I lose my mind. I dated a gay guy before, and I don't want to make the same mistake. I have a preference for a completely straight man.

Well, I gotta tell you that this doesn't sound like a completely straight man. On the other hand, some of the things you mention aren't necessarily red flags. There are girlish heterosexual men [just as the vast majority of gay men are not effeminate], and a man can also care about his appearance, take a long time to dress and shower, and still be straight. [The reverse is also true: I'm a gay man and I'm a slob, or so some friends tell me, LOL!] Guys who grow up in all female households can sometimes seem a bit epicene [androgynous or unmanly] but it doesn't necessarily mean they're gay. [For the record, it's generally now believed that people are born gay, so whether a man grows up surrounded by women or men, has or hasn't got a father figure, is irrelevant.] Growing up with women may have helped your boyfriend be more comfortable around women, and perhaps the more stereotypical gay men.

Now we come to this business of how your boyfriend has virtually immersed himself in the gay scene. Since you say that the both of you have gay friends and therefore hang out a lot in gay clubs, it may be that he finds himself in a homoerotic environment and doesn't want to stick out like a sore thumb. [We'll all seen some straight guys in gay bars clinging to their girlfriends, practically breaking their ribs, in terror of being thought gay.] So he dances with some of his gay friends to be cool, although I have to admit that the grinding and holding hands is a bit much. I have known cases of guys who immerse themselves in gay culture, have girlfriends and refer to themselves as straight, but are deep down attracted to men. My guess is that your boyfriend is possibly gay or at least bisexual but just isn't quite ready to acknowledge it, although he seems to do everything else but have sex with guys [if what he's told you is true, and it may not be]. I call these guys "gay-friendly closet cases."

Most straight couples go to gay clubs that tend to be somewhat mixed [men and women/gay and straight] and not the more intense cruise bars or "meet" markets where gay guys go to get laid. If he's hanging out in the latter bars he could certainly be attracted to men.

I won't repeat what I've written in my post Asking Your Boyfriend If He's Gay, but I suggest you review the information and familiarize yourself with the red flags.

The truth is that there's no hard and fast way to know for sure about someone unless they come out of the closet or you discover they're having sex with guys, are on gay dating sights, etc. In the meantime, if his behavior in gay bars embarrasses you, you should probably stick to straight clubs. Right now I think it's more that he's "acting" gay that bothers you than that he may be sleeping with guys, because otherwise you probably wouldn't bother dating a guy that you think is gay!

Gay Boyfriend?

Dr. Bill. Thank you for the website. I read all your posts about possibly gay boyfriends and would love it if you could judge my situation. My boyfriend is kinda of feminine...gestures, tone of voice, posture, likes chick flicks, pretty sensitive...all those stereotypes. If I bring up homosexuality in general, he is cool about it, very liberal. His family seems very traditional since college he lived in a very liberal environment with a lot of options to come out if he wanted. I asked him if he ever experimented with a guy...he said many years ago he had kinda a dry spell with dating girls and he and a gay friend were joking about maybe him being attracted to guys...and they kissed to try it...and he didn't like it and never wanted to try again. He did have a couple of long-term relationship with women in the past and he is late 20s.

Oh, and I read on the web that scientists determined that testosterone level affects lengths of second and forth fingers (weird but apparently true) --[I doubt it -- Dr. Bill] -- and that based on their study very feminine women's and gay men's ring fingers are shorter than point fingers (straight men's ring fingers are longer). So his are like...very feminine or [like] gay men :) !!!!

So, do I have a real reason to be concerned? I would really love your opinion.

If your concern has to do with testosterone levels and other ridiculous stuff that you've read on the web, I would say "no." First of all, male homosexuality has nothing to do with testosterone levels. Gay men do not have less testosterone that straight men. If that were the case, there would be no gay "bears" -- very hairy [and often very macho] gay guys -- or gay men who are bald. [Typical "male pattern baldness," which affects many men regardless of their sexual orientation, is actually caused by an excess of testosterone. ] And for the record, the vast majority of gay men aren't effeminate.

Nothing that you've said about your boyfriend would be an automatic indication of homosexuality. There are straight men who are sensitive, artistic, like "chick flicks" just as there are gay men who are insensitive, have no artistic bent, and wouldn't be caught dead at a "chick flick." We have to get beyond stereotypes. The business about the fingers is just junk science, and I wouldn't take it seriously. If we were to go by this ring finger nonsense, I would be a heterosexual man, and believe me, I'm not.

As I've said before, you should worry/wonder that your boyfriend may be gay if you find gay porn in his apartment, on his computer, if he stares at/flirts with other guys, is registered on a gay dating site, gets sexy, romantic emails from men, and so on. The fact that he is cool with gay people probably just means that he's cool.

As for his experimentation with a gay friend ... that might raise a red flag, but if he was a little drunk, just tried a quick peck to see what it was like... He didn't have sex with the guy or make out with him passionately, so chances are it was done for a laugh and nothing more. [Or maybe he just kissed the wrong guy!]

Seriously, if I were you I would just enjoy that you've got a sensitive boyfriend who can take you to a "chick flick" now and then and is open-minded.

Fabulous?

Why do gay men say "fabulous" all the time?

Uh, believe me, the vast majority of us don't. Besides, "fabulous" is a kind of theatrical word that is used by people of all stripes and orientations. Flamboyant men and women -- both straight and gay -- may use the term much, much more than the rest of the population, but the average gay guy may not even use it at all. Trust me on this, you fabulous thing, you!

Out of the Gay Ghetto

Recently I was told by a friend that a friend of his surveyed this blog, and said -- and I paraphrase -- what does he [meaning me] know about anything? He stays in his gay ghetto and doesn't get out in the world [or words to that effect].

I have already posted my qualifications for writing this blog so you can click here and I won't repeat them. Except to say that I have never stayed in a "gay ghetto." I have straight friends and relatives whose company I greatly enjoy, have gone to parties where I may have been the only gay person present, have gone to innumerable non-gay bars and so on. Unlike the fellow who criticized me, I have also traveled extensively. [I don't believe this fellow has ever left the country -- or the state!] I've been to all the world capitols and then some, and have also traveled across the USA, although mostly in the east or south. Being a gay activist does not mean that I am a separatist, and I pretty much go wherever the hell I feel like going. [Ironically, I have been to Cape Cod many times but have never been - so far -- to that "gay ghetto" Provincetown!]

My interests are just as far-flung as my traveling. Some of my interests might be seen -- rightly or wrong -- as "gay," while most wouldn't be. Out of my thirty or so published books, none of them have been "gay" books [that may change in the future] and only a couple may have been seen as being of "gay interest" in publishing classifications.

So my opinions on this blog are informed and educated by a wider view of the world than this critic of mine would suggest.

For example, I always see red when I hear people, gay or straight, saying that gays are obsessed with youth and beauty. First of all, that opinion completely ignores the bear community, where it isn't about being young and pretty, and even more importantly, ignores the fact that virtually everyone in the world, regardless of sex or sexual orientation, has a hang up with age and looks. Some gay people are unaware of this because they are living in a ghetto, rarely interacting with people who aren't exactly like themselves. And superficial people tend to have friends who are just as superficial.

In any case, having a gay identity, being Out and Proud instead of a Self-Hating Homo, does not mean you are living in a "gay ghetto." And yes, I do understand --because I have met and talked with many of them -- those men who are homosexual but still feel full of shame, or are married and in the closet, or who are on the down-low and don't identify as gay, and so on. So I feel qualified to advise them as well.

After all, my message has always been It's Okay to Be Gay -- and what the hell is wrong with that?

Sexy But Gross

I keep myself in shape, exercise, go to the gym, keep what I think is a nice appearance, don't smell or look like I do, practice good personal and dental hygiene, and have been told I am attractive. Yet when I go to a bar I see men that I find attractive dragging home guys who look like something I might find under my sink -- if I didn't ever clean it that is. I know there's a "bear" movement, but aren't things getting out of hand? And since when did obesity and grossness become sexy? I swear it's not that I'm into pretty boys or think that everyone has to have a handsome face, but have utterly repulsive people become sex objects in the gay male community?

Oh, boy! This is one question I'm going to answer verrrry carefully.

First of all, I wouldn't say that "utterly repulsive people" -- or at least people you find utterly repulsive -- have become sex objects in the gay male community. Rather it's that the boundaries of what's attractive have been stretched quite a bit. It used to be that the only gay men who were [generally] considered attractive, were young, pretty, very slender, with posh apartments, expensive aftershave, manicured nails and not a hair out of place. But this was back in the days when the dominant image of a gay male was a swishy "hairdresser" stereotype. We've come a long way since then, baby! [Although to some people, gay and straight, that's still the dominant gay male image unfortunately.]

The reality is that there are hundreds of thousands of gay men who don't fit into the young, pretty, slenderella stereotype and yet are considered "hot" by many other men. I may not get the appeal of "fat," but there are guys who don't get why some fellows are crazy about my -- and others' -- shaved heads. Some like tattoos, and some find them gross. Hairy bodies versus smooth. Facial hair or none. And so on and so on. As I've often said, there's no accounting for taste.

Still, I do admit that sometimes it seems the envelope is being bent way out of shape. I've heard guys on the way home from the gym wondering why they torture themselves to stay physically fit when so many utterly out of shape guys have their admirers. Some of this has to do with a certain masculine image that goes with a pot belly and hairy chest. [But then how do you explain the attraction of effeminate bears, who do exist?]

Don't know how old you are, but I for one am quite happy that men can still be considered sexy in middle-age and afterward, right?

As for the whole "bear" thing, I'll save that for another post.

In the meantime, I still recommend that you stay in shape, practice good personal hygiene, and all the rest. Ultimately -- and I guess I'm being politically incorrect here, not that I give a damn -- an "attractive," fit-looking man will make out better than a "slovenly" one in most instances.

Are Married Homosexuals Butcher?

I hope this is not offensive. Is it true that gay men who for one reason or another marry and have children, maybe because they can't accept being gay, are more "macho" than gay men who are strictly gay. I mean is it easier for them to "pass " because they do, after all, get married -- so they can't be obviously gay or women would reject them. I probably haven't explained this well but I hope you understand what I'm driving at. Anon,

I understand what you're driving at, but I have to tell you that you're off base on this one.

I know it may seem strange that an effeminate, stereotypically gay man can marry a woman and even have children -- you wonder, what was she [the wife, that is] thinking? -- but it does happen. I have certainly seen many male-female couples where the husband seems a little bit "queeny" [that doesn't necessarily mean he's gay, of course]. The guy may be attracted to men but may not identify as gay, thinking of himself as bisexual or even straight.

There are a few theories as to why women marry men who seem gay. Some wives in this situation are closeted lesbians; others are so in love with the guy that they look past his femme exterior -- which they may like in any case -- and are in denial. Then there's the somewhat homophobic and/or unsophisticated response: he's a great guy and he fucks me so he can't be gay [as if a guy can't be a great guy if he's gay, or a basically gay guy can't possibly have sex with a woman]. The feminine guy they love is like a soul-mate, a boyfriend and best female friend rolled up into one.

Anyway, I think we've all had women introduce us to their husbands and boyfriends and think to ourselves: Sheesh -- can't she tell this guy is gay? On the other side of the butch-femme spectrum, on more than one occasion I've had women introduce me to guys who may not be obviously gay but that I've seen in gay bars or even been intimate with. Talk about awkward moments!

What I have to make clear is that it is not true that only "butch" or butcher gay men get involved with women. Nor is it true that men who are bisexual [at least in the technical sense in that they are attracted to men but have wives or girlfriends] are more masculine than men who are strictly gay. Again, many bisexual men are actually quite effeminate, and most of the strictly gay men I've met are pretty masculine. [And, while we're on the subject, men who are "tops" are not necessarily more masculine than guys who are "bottoms."]

In other words, there are no hard and fast rules. Confusing, maybe, but it keeps you on your toes!

So what ABOUT limp-wristed hairdresses?

You've referred to gay stereotypes such as "limp-wristed hairdressers" in your posts. Well, what would you say to a man who is gay and who just happens to be a limp-wristed hairdresser? Where does such a person fit in your gay world?

Great question! [I do have a friend who happens to be a gay hairdresser but he isn't limp-wristed.]

Where does he fit in "my" gay world? He's one of my gay brothers. Just because I've made the point that most gay men don't fit neatly into stereotypical cubby holes, doesn't mean I'm not aware that there are gay men who do. They are part of "my" gay world.

True, most of the gay guys I hang out with I wouldn't call "queens," but some of them are on the cusp -- big deal! I've never claimed to be Charles Bronson! [Not saying he was gay, nor that I especially cared one way or the other.]

And by the way, out of all the gay men I've met, including some rather swishy ones, on only one occasion have I ever met one who literally had limp wrists. I don't mean that caricatured arm-hand flip or whatever you call it that some guys supposedly indulge in. I mean, he held out his arms and the hands just dangled downward at the wrists as if suspended in mid-air, like a begging dog holding out its front paws as it stood upright on its back legs. Quite strange, actually. I've no doubt there are others in the world, but there certainly aren't many of them -- not that I'm saying that means they're bad people or that they have no place in my world, mind you!

For the record, I don't approve of "queen-bashing," and I hardly ever see it happening, even in butch bear bars. Sure, some masculine gay men may express their sexual disinterest in effeminate guys, but when they encounter them in bars or at parties they seem to have no problem being perfectly friendly, even forming lasting friendships.

Gay guys come in all types, shapes and sizes. We may have different styles, attitudes, politics, and so on. We may not always agree or get along

But we're all gay brothers, eh?

Do Bears Predominate?

Is bear culture taking over the whole gay community? Why do gay men feel they have to butch it up all the time? Anon.

Uh, many gay guys just happen to be "butch" (very masculine -- or at least not effeminate); some are not. Most -- like straight men -- are somewhere in between.

No gay man who isn't butch should feel a need to "butch it up" if he doesn't want to. Everyone should feel free to be themselves. It's all about accepting yourself for who or what you are. You don't have to be butch or ultra-masculine to be happy.

Some men feel a need to come on strong, macho, when they enter a bar that has a decidedly masculine atmosphere. Some guys overdo it. They may already be butch enough, so they think that being rude, stepping on people's feet, and acting like a jerk, makes them more macho. Straight guys do this, too. Gay or straight, a jerk is a jerk.

As for bear culture taking over, I think it's really that -- in some places, at least -- people are beginning to realize that there's more to the gay male community than the proverbial "limp-wristed hairdresser." [Hell, there's more to the hairdresser's community.] You might think that in this day and age everyone is more sophisticated about the diversity of our community, but you'd be surprised how many supposedly hip people (including some gays) still think in terms of stereotypes.

[Just the other night a man in a gay bar said to two other customers. "I'm not into sports. Gay men are not into sports." The two other men vigorously disagreed, as both were baseball fans.]

Gay men, like all men, are into whatever the hell they want to be. [I admit that it's a distinct possibility that gay men in general feel freer to explore options -- art and culture, for instance -- that some straight men may cut themselves off from out of their own fears and insecurities. But let me make it clear that there are many hetero men who are not ashamed to be seen at the ballet or opera -- good for them! -- and some gay men who wouldn't be caught dead in such venues. Too bad!]

The emergence of bear culture means that the definition of attractiveness has been expanded to include men that the more stereotypical gay males supposedly eschew: hairy guys, chubby guys, guys who don't dress in color-coordinated outfits or designer clothing. People are learning that there's more to the gay male community than willowy young queens [not to put those guys down].

Don't look at this as a bad thing. People need to learn that gay men come in all shapes, sizes, and attitudes. We are literally everywhere!

Bear culture will not supplant or destroy non-bear gay culture. It will compliment it.

Butch or femme, feel free to be yourself. And recognize that everyone has a special niche in the gay community.

And that we're all gay brothers.

Artistic Gay Guys

Why are gay men more artistic? -- just asking. Anon.

Just telling -- we aren't more artistic; it's another stereotype. While personally I think it would be a big plus for the gay male community if we were all great artists, the truth is we're a very diverse bunch of guys. If gay men were more artistic than straight men -- and some people in and out of the gay community really believe this -- that would mean that most actors, dancers, painters, symphony musicians, opera singers and so on would be gay. But although there are certainly gay men in all of those fields, there are plenty of heterosexual men as well. I really don't think there's a correlation between sexual orientation and artistic ability.

In certain industries, such as fashion and haircutting, the gay men at least seem to be a little on the stereotypical side, which may be why they've become associated with those industries. But surely there are less obvious gay men in those industries as well, not to mention heterosexual guys. Heterosexual fashion designers may seem like an oxymoron, but I've no doubt they exist.

People in the arts were once looked down upon (and in some cases still are) as being immoral, especially actors. So people found it easy to believe that actors tended to be gay, because gays were supposedly immoral. Also, some gay men -- who were outsiders -- weren't so hung up on being involved in professions that weren't considered "manly" enough. Think of all the actors even today who drive race cars because they think acting isn't a macho enough career for a guy. Talk about being insecure!

Of course I know gay men who are artists and who appreciate different forms of art, music, culture etc. But I also know a great many gay men who are not only not artistic, but who have no great appreciation of, or particular interest in, the arts.

In other words, while some gay men want to go to the opera, others would just as soon see the latest installment of Friday the 13th. [Or watch or play in a football game.]

And some, like me, enjoy both.

Weighty Matters

Why are lesbians disproportionately overweight compared to straight women? I have no evidence of this but in my experience it seems to be true. Anon,

Yikes -- talk about stereotyping! I don't know about your experience but I've seen and met lesbians of all shapes and sizes and have not seen any indication that most are overweight as compared to heterosexual women. As well, the "butch" stereotype only accounts for a small percentage of gay women. As I've said many times, the gay community is not only very diverse, but most gay people -- male and female -- do not conform to stereotypes, be they "nelly queens" or "butch, heavyset lesbians." These people exist, of course, and are entitled to as much respect as anyone else, but they are hardly the whole community.

I think many people, gay and straight, have trouble getting past stereotypes because A.) they are unaware of how really large (and I'm not referring to weight, LOL) the gay community is and B.) they see gay people as all resembling themselves [if they're gay] or the couple of gay friends they may have [if they're not].

Gay people may have weight issues, but no more so than the rest of the population.