I enjoyed the Gay Pride events in New York but am I being a tightass when I say that one thing really bothered me. And that was this tendency for people to say "Happy Pride" instead of Gay Pride. I mean, what's up with that? Has there suddenly become something wrong with the word Gay? I know there are other groups included, but are gays now non-persons?
I wouldn't go that far, but I understand where you're coming from. "Pride" has become the name for the annual Gay/LGBT parades/marches and it's stuck with many people and reporters, although many still use "Gay Pride" or "LGBT Pride" instead of the generic "Pride."
It sort of annoys me when someone says "Happy Pride" in my face so I always counter with "Happy GAY Pride." Just saying "Pride" sounds too generic to me, meaningless. And while you can probably tell what kind of pride we're talking about from the same-sex couples and headlines, it's still rather annoying.
It's not so much that "gay" has become a dirty word as that it expanded to become LGBT so as to include all the sexual minorities [up to a ludicrous point where some call it LGBTQASBC and so on]. Although "gay" certainly includes gay women, you can understand that many lesbians wanted their own identity, which is also true of bisexuals and transgender individuals. Hence, I believe "Happy Pride" was born so as not to offend the non-gay members of the LGBT movement. Or something like that. It was some -- certainly not all -- politically-correct activists who decided this -- You and I did not get to vote.
The trouble is that "pride" is rather presumptuous. After all, there are many groups who have pride -- Blacks, Jews, Asians, Latinos, Women and so on -- since when does any one group or alliance own rights to the word?
Not far from where I live there's a section in the Village where different groups set up fairs, and at each fair you can see bankers and others wearing "Pride" shirts that work for any and every group -- I mean, they don't bother changing the shirts whether it's gays, Hispanics, or Chinese-Americans and so on who are celebrating. Saves on the cost of t-shirts for sure.
The thing is, "gay" should never go out of date. In the first place,"gay" was always meant as an umbrella word for the L B T factions, and it still has a certain identity and power.
And Gay Power is something we never want to lose.
They say Happy Pride.
You say: Happy GAY Pride.
It's as simple as that.
Showing posts with label gay community. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gay community. Show all posts
Wednesday, July 22, 2015
Monday, May 31, 2010
"Man-Hating" Lesbians?
Dear Bill, I stumbled upon your website a few months back and since then I am a regular reader of your blog. Without wasting much time let me get it to the point right away. What I have seen for the last couple of years that is gay men and straight women enjoy a very "close" relationship with each other but for lesbians and [gay] men quite the opposite is true - lesbian women ( with the exception of a few) hate almost everything that is male. Let me make it clear to you, though, that I am no fan of "sweeping generalizations" but I have to tell you what I have seen in these years.
Lesbian women, who would have a cow over an "insensitive" remark directed towards their sexual orientation, (it never ceases to amaze me and sometime angers me) don't give a second thought before stirring up hatred towards men in pretty much every aspect of their life. Why so? I am waiting for your answer.
You say you don't like sweeping generalizations so all I can think is that you've had some mighty unfortunate incidents with certain gay women in the past couple of years, which is too bad. I have always enjoyed good and friendly relationships with the lesbians I have known. In general I have to say that my observations over the years have been quite different from yours. Most gay men and lesbians I know get along together perfectly well. Of course, there can always be misunderstandings and personality clashes. This may be what you have encountered -- not "hatred of all men" per se.
First, you have to remember that gay men and lesbians share one major thing in common. We're all gay! Therefore putting each other down almost seems homophobic!
I can't speak for the lesbians you've encountered but you have to understand that not only do they have to deal with homophobia, but with sexism, and for some -- even in this day and age -- it happens to them on a regular basis. Because of the insensitive way they've been treated by men -- gay and straight -- some women (again gay and straight) have become especially sensitive to what they perceive as a slight, an indication that there's something second-rate about them because they're female. It's understandable that they would be ticked off by this.
You also have to understand that some lesbians might be reacting to those gay men who-- sadly -- have a "problem" with lesbians. As I say, since we're all gay this doesn't make much sense to me. But while they are definitely in the minority I have met gay men who don't like lesbians and make no bones about it. Certainly a gay woman who encounters one of these men has no reason to go out of her way to be pleasant. Some of these men simply dislike women; others simply don't relate to lesbians but have a number of straight women friends who share their interests -- such as men. Some lesbians may not hate men -- they're just not interested in them [and vice versa].
But right here let me make it clear that that whole business of gay men hating women is an awful old stereotype. Most gay men have warm relationships with female friends and relatives, gay or straight. This also applies to the stereotype of "man-hating" lesbians.
Now back in the seventies when the women's liberation movement was first coming into prominence, there were a lot of very angry women who were sick and tired of the second-class status imposed on them by [some] men, and I've no doubt that some of them -- regardless of sexual orientation -- did for a time "hate" men -- or at least "male chauvinist pigs" and the attitudes they engendered. But as I say, the vast majority of lesbians I have encountered don't seem to hate gay men or straight men.
I don't know what kind of situations were going on when you had these unpleasant encounters with certain lesbians. If you look back maybe there were other factors in play.
Of course, every group has its angry people. I mean people who are angry about factors in their life that they can't control. The anger you've seen from these certain lesbians you've encountered may have nothing to do with their sex or sexual orientation, but may be a reaction to things going on in their lives that are highly upsetting to them. They take it out on whoever's near. And perhaps they'd rather take it out on a man than on another woman. Many people -- even members of minority groups -- tend to blame the members of other groups for things that have gone wrong in their own lives, rightly or wrongly.
But as I say, gay men and lesbians are all homosexual, so we need to be as supportive and understanding of each other as possible. If you honestly feel these particular women you've encountered have no real grievance, then either you're not looking at it from their point of view, or perhaps -- in this case -- they are just angry people who are Mad at The World for any number of perfectly human reasons.
Lesbian women, who would have a cow over an "insensitive" remark directed towards their sexual orientation, (it never ceases to amaze me and sometime angers me) don't give a second thought before stirring up hatred towards men in pretty much every aspect of their life. Why so? I am waiting for your answer.
You say you don't like sweeping generalizations so all I can think is that you've had some mighty unfortunate incidents with certain gay women in the past couple of years, which is too bad. I have always enjoyed good and friendly relationships with the lesbians I have known. In general I have to say that my observations over the years have been quite different from yours. Most gay men and lesbians I know get along together perfectly well. Of course, there can always be misunderstandings and personality clashes. This may be what you have encountered -- not "hatred of all men" per se.
First, you have to remember that gay men and lesbians share one major thing in common. We're all gay! Therefore putting each other down almost seems homophobic!
I can't speak for the lesbians you've encountered but you have to understand that not only do they have to deal with homophobia, but with sexism, and for some -- even in this day and age -- it happens to them on a regular basis. Because of the insensitive way they've been treated by men -- gay and straight -- some women (again gay and straight) have become especially sensitive to what they perceive as a slight, an indication that there's something second-rate about them because they're female. It's understandable that they would be ticked off by this.
You also have to understand that some lesbians might be reacting to those gay men who-- sadly -- have a "problem" with lesbians. As I say, since we're all gay this doesn't make much sense to me. But while they are definitely in the minority I have met gay men who don't like lesbians and make no bones about it. Certainly a gay woman who encounters one of these men has no reason to go out of her way to be pleasant. Some of these men simply dislike women; others simply don't relate to lesbians but have a number of straight women friends who share their interests -- such as men. Some lesbians may not hate men -- they're just not interested in them [and vice versa].
But right here let me make it clear that that whole business of gay men hating women is an awful old stereotype. Most gay men have warm relationships with female friends and relatives, gay or straight. This also applies to the stereotype of "man-hating" lesbians.
Now back in the seventies when the women's liberation movement was first coming into prominence, there were a lot of very angry women who were sick and tired of the second-class status imposed on them by [some] men, and I've no doubt that some of them -- regardless of sexual orientation -- did for a time "hate" men -- or at least "male chauvinist pigs" and the attitudes they engendered. But as I say, the vast majority of lesbians I have encountered don't seem to hate gay men or straight men.
I don't know what kind of situations were going on when you had these unpleasant encounters with certain lesbians. If you look back maybe there were other factors in play.
Of course, every group has its angry people. I mean people who are angry about factors in their life that they can't control. The anger you've seen from these certain lesbians you've encountered may have nothing to do with their sex or sexual orientation, but may be a reaction to things going on in their lives that are highly upsetting to them. They take it out on whoever's near. And perhaps they'd rather take it out on a man than on another woman. Many people -- even members of minority groups -- tend to blame the members of other groups for things that have gone wrong in their own lives, rightly or wrongly.
But as I say, gay men and lesbians are all homosexual, so we need to be as supportive and understanding of each other as possible. If you honestly feel these particular women you've encountered have no real grievance, then either you're not looking at it from their point of view, or perhaps -- in this case -- they are just angry people who are Mad at The World for any number of perfectly human reasons.
Sunday, January 17, 2010
So what ABOUT limp-wristed hairdresses?
You've referred to gay stereotypes such as "limp-wristed hairdressers" in your posts. Well, what would you say to a man who is gay and who just happens to be a limp-wristed hairdresser? Where does such a person fit in your gay world?
Great question! [I do have a friend who happens to be a gay hairdresser but he isn't limp-wristed.]
Where does he fit in "my" gay world? He's one of my gay brothers. Just because I've made the point that most gay men don't fit neatly into stereotypical cubby holes, doesn't mean I'm not aware that there are gay men who do. They are part of "my" gay world.
True, most of the gay guys I hang out with I wouldn't call "queens," but some of them are on the cusp -- big deal! I've never claimed to be Charles Bronson! [Not saying he was gay, nor that I especially cared one way or the other.]
And by the way, out of all the gay men I've met, including some rather swishy ones, on only one occasion have I ever met one who literally had limp wrists. I don't mean that caricatured arm-hand flip or whatever you call it that some guys supposedly indulge in. I mean, he held out his arms and the hands just dangled downward at the wrists as if suspended in mid-air, like a begging dog holding out its front paws as it stood upright on its back legs. Quite strange, actually. I've no doubt there are others in the world, but there certainly aren't many of them -- not that I'm saying that means they're bad people or that they have no place in my world, mind you!
For the record, I don't approve of "queen-bashing," and I hardly ever see it happening, even in butch bear bars. Sure, some masculine gay men may express their sexual disinterest in effeminate guys, but when they encounter them in bars or at parties they seem to have no problem being perfectly friendly, even forming lasting friendships.
Gay guys come in all types, shapes and sizes. We may have different styles, attitudes, politics, and so on. We may not always agree or get along
But we're all gay brothers, eh?
Great question! [I do have a friend who happens to be a gay hairdresser but he isn't limp-wristed.]
Where does he fit in "my" gay world? He's one of my gay brothers. Just because I've made the point that most gay men don't fit neatly into stereotypical cubby holes, doesn't mean I'm not aware that there are gay men who do. They are part of "my" gay world.
True, most of the gay guys I hang out with I wouldn't call "queens," but some of them are on the cusp -- big deal! I've never claimed to be Charles Bronson! [Not saying he was gay, nor that I especially cared one way or the other.]
And by the way, out of all the gay men I've met, including some rather swishy ones, on only one occasion have I ever met one who literally had limp wrists. I don't mean that caricatured arm-hand flip or whatever you call it that some guys supposedly indulge in. I mean, he held out his arms and the hands just dangled downward at the wrists as if suspended in mid-air, like a begging dog holding out its front paws as it stood upright on its back legs. Quite strange, actually. I've no doubt there are others in the world, but there certainly aren't many of them -- not that I'm saying that means they're bad people or that they have no place in my world, mind you!
For the record, I don't approve of "queen-bashing," and I hardly ever see it happening, even in butch bear bars. Sure, some masculine gay men may express their sexual disinterest in effeminate guys, but when they encounter them in bars or at parties they seem to have no problem being perfectly friendly, even forming lasting friendships.
Gay guys come in all types, shapes and sizes. We may have different styles, attitudes, politics, and so on. We may not always agree or get along
But we're all gay brothers, eh?
Tuesday, October 20, 2009
The Whole "Queen" Thing
I'm a gay guy, but I confess that I don't get the whole "queen" thing, and especially not the drag queen thing. You can slam me if you want, but that's how I feel. What is up with those guys? Anon.
I'm a little confused here. I assume you're a butch or non-stereotypical gay man -- most of us are, in fact -- and you don't understand why some gay guys are queeny? I'll proceed from that supposition. [I'll confess right now in the interest of full disclosure that some queens can drive me right up the wall, while others I find warm, friendly, gay-positive and altogether terrific. But that's true of the butch numbers as well. ]
Most if not all "queens" are gay but most gay guys are not queens. For reasons that have never quite been determined, a certain percentage of gay men are stereotypically effeminate or "swishy" to a certain degree. This may run from a mild softness or slight girlishness on occasion to full-out screaming queen mania that's on all the time.
If there's a gene to determine sexual orientation, as some studies suggest, is there also a gene to determine whether or not a gay person is butch or femme? Somehow I doubt it. I think effeminacy in men is an acquired trait. In other words, it has to do with how and by whom a man is raised and with his environment. Then again -- and here's where things really get confusing -- there are queeny gay men who have strong male role models, who are not surrounded and raised by women, and who grow up in atmospheres that aren't especially "feminine." So who knows? So let's just say that effeminacy can be an acquired trait but may not be in all cases. [And let's not forget -- Saturday Night Live jokes aside -- that there are undoubtedly effeminate heterosexual men. Not just straight-identified, but straight.]
But now we come to drag queens, men who dress up as women. In general, if these men are gay we call them drag queens; if straight -- and yes, there are heterosexual men who like to dress up as women -- we call them transvestites. In any case, most gay men are not transvestites and have zero interest in dressing up as women.
For one reason or another some gay men -- and perhaps some straight men as well -- identity with the opposite sex to such a degree that they feel in part female. This is different from a transsexual person, who can be an actual female trapped in a male body or vice versa. Undoubtedly there are TVs [transvestites] and drag queens who are unacknowledged transsexuals. An extreme identification with women can lead a man to spend much if not all of his time in drag and in a female persona. These guys may feel unattractive and colorless without the female finery; getting in drag helps them get out of their shell and develop a personality the way that imbibing a few drinks does for other people. And, strange as it sounds, this may be completely unrelated to their sexual orientation. [And some men find sexual gratification in dressing up as women.]
This is why you don't "get" drag queens. Because it isn't a gay thing as such at all. Drag queens are a part of the gay community, but they have their own special needs and purposes that most gay men can't especially relate to at all.
As for queens or femmes -- gay men who are stereotypical but aren't necessarily interested in dressing in drag -- a lot of times they pick up their flamboyant gestures and behavior by mimicking the more "outrageous" gay men they they first meet when they come out. A lot of swishy behavior is just acting, camping it up. A snide homophobe may think that beneath every butch number there's a queen but the truth is that sometimes it's just the opposite. Some guys act effeminate simply because that's what they think gay guys do. If they get involved with the more masculine side of gay culture, they may drop the whole swish thing, although if they're old enough it may have become such a large part of who they are that it becomes impossible to change.
But as I've said before, butch or femme, we're all gay brothers, each with our own unique way of expressing ourselves.
Macho or swishy, drag queen or leather king, sports fan or Broadway enthusiast, we don't necessarily have to "get" each other.
But respect each other we must, for divided we will definitely fall.
I'm a little confused here. I assume you're a butch or non-stereotypical gay man -- most of us are, in fact -- and you don't understand why some gay guys are queeny? I'll proceed from that supposition. [I'll confess right now in the interest of full disclosure that some queens can drive me right up the wall, while others I find warm, friendly, gay-positive and altogether terrific. But that's true of the butch numbers as well. ]
Most if not all "queens" are gay but most gay guys are not queens. For reasons that have never quite been determined, a certain percentage of gay men are stereotypically effeminate or "swishy" to a certain degree. This may run from a mild softness or slight girlishness on occasion to full-out screaming queen mania that's on all the time.
If there's a gene to determine sexual orientation, as some studies suggest, is there also a gene to determine whether or not a gay person is butch or femme? Somehow I doubt it. I think effeminacy in men is an acquired trait. In other words, it has to do with how and by whom a man is raised and with his environment. Then again -- and here's where things really get confusing -- there are queeny gay men who have strong male role models, who are not surrounded and raised by women, and who grow up in atmospheres that aren't especially "feminine." So who knows? So let's just say that effeminacy can be an acquired trait but may not be in all cases. [And let's not forget -- Saturday Night Live jokes aside -- that there are undoubtedly effeminate heterosexual men. Not just straight-identified, but straight.]
But now we come to drag queens, men who dress up as women. In general, if these men are gay we call them drag queens; if straight -- and yes, there are heterosexual men who like to dress up as women -- we call them transvestites. In any case, most gay men are not transvestites and have zero interest in dressing up as women.
For one reason or another some gay men -- and perhaps some straight men as well -- identity with the opposite sex to such a degree that they feel in part female. This is different from a transsexual person, who can be an actual female trapped in a male body or vice versa. Undoubtedly there are TVs [transvestites] and drag queens who are unacknowledged transsexuals. An extreme identification with women can lead a man to spend much if not all of his time in drag and in a female persona. These guys may feel unattractive and colorless without the female finery; getting in drag helps them get out of their shell and develop a personality the way that imbibing a few drinks does for other people. And, strange as it sounds, this may be completely unrelated to their sexual orientation. [And some men find sexual gratification in dressing up as women.]
This is why you don't "get" drag queens. Because it isn't a gay thing as such at all. Drag queens are a part of the gay community, but they have their own special needs and purposes that most gay men can't especially relate to at all.
As for queens or femmes -- gay men who are stereotypical but aren't necessarily interested in dressing in drag -- a lot of times they pick up their flamboyant gestures and behavior by mimicking the more "outrageous" gay men they they first meet when they come out. A lot of swishy behavior is just acting, camping it up. A snide homophobe may think that beneath every butch number there's a queen but the truth is that sometimes it's just the opposite. Some guys act effeminate simply because that's what they think gay guys do. If they get involved with the more masculine side of gay culture, they may drop the whole swish thing, although if they're old enough it may have become such a large part of who they are that it becomes impossible to change.
But as I've said before, butch or femme, we're all gay brothers, each with our own unique way of expressing ourselves.
Macho or swishy, drag queen or leather king, sports fan or Broadway enthusiast, we don't necessarily have to "get" each other.
But respect each other we must, for divided we will definitely fall.
Sunday, October 11, 2009
Do Bears Predominate?
Is bear culture taking over the whole gay community? Why do gay men feel they have to butch it up all the time? Anon.
Uh, many gay guys just happen to be "butch" (very masculine -- or at least not effeminate); some are not. Most -- like straight men -- are somewhere in between.
No gay man who isn't butch should feel a need to "butch it up" if he doesn't want to. Everyone should feel free to be themselves. It's all about accepting yourself for who or what you are. You don't have to be butch or ultra-masculine to be happy.
Some men feel a need to come on strong, macho, when they enter a bar that has a decidedly masculine atmosphere. Some guys overdo it. They may already be butch enough, so they think that being rude, stepping on people's feet, and acting like a jerk, makes them more macho. Straight guys do this, too. Gay or straight, a jerk is a jerk.
As for bear culture taking over, I think it's really that -- in some places, at least -- people are beginning to realize that there's more to the gay male community than the proverbial "limp-wristed hairdresser." [Hell, there's more to the hairdresser's community.] You might think that in this day and age everyone is more sophisticated about the diversity of our community, but you'd be surprised how many supposedly hip people (including some gays) still think in terms of stereotypes.
[Just the other night a man in a gay bar said to two other customers. "I'm not into sports. Gay men are not into sports." The two other men vigorously disagreed, as both were baseball fans.]
Gay men, like all men, are into whatever the hell they want to be. [I admit that it's a distinct possibility that gay men in general feel freer to explore options -- art and culture, for instance -- that some straight men may cut themselves off from out of their own fears and insecurities. But let me make it clear that there are many hetero men who are not ashamed to be seen at the ballet or opera -- good for them! -- and some gay men who wouldn't be caught dead in such venues. Too bad!]
The emergence of bear culture means that the definition of attractiveness has been expanded to include men that the more stereotypical gay males supposedly eschew: hairy guys, chubby guys, guys who don't dress in color-coordinated outfits or designer clothing. People are learning that there's more to the gay male community than willowy young queens [not to put those guys down].
Don't look at this as a bad thing. People need to learn that gay men come in all shapes, sizes, and attitudes. We are literally everywhere!
Bear culture will not supplant or destroy non-bear gay culture. It will compliment it.
Butch or femme, feel free to be yourself. And recognize that everyone has a special niche in the gay community.
And that we're all gay brothers.
Uh, many gay guys just happen to be "butch" (very masculine -- or at least not effeminate); some are not. Most -- like straight men -- are somewhere in between.
No gay man who isn't butch should feel a need to "butch it up" if he doesn't want to. Everyone should feel free to be themselves. It's all about accepting yourself for who or what you are. You don't have to be butch or ultra-masculine to be happy.
Some men feel a need to come on strong, macho, when they enter a bar that has a decidedly masculine atmosphere. Some guys overdo it. They may already be butch enough, so they think that being rude, stepping on people's feet, and acting like a jerk, makes them more macho. Straight guys do this, too. Gay or straight, a jerk is a jerk.
As for bear culture taking over, I think it's really that -- in some places, at least -- people are beginning to realize that there's more to the gay male community than the proverbial "limp-wristed hairdresser." [Hell, there's more to the hairdresser's community.] You might think that in this day and age everyone is more sophisticated about the diversity of our community, but you'd be surprised how many supposedly hip people (including some gays) still think in terms of stereotypes.
[Just the other night a man in a gay bar said to two other customers. "I'm not into sports. Gay men are not into sports." The two other men vigorously disagreed, as both were baseball fans.]
Gay men, like all men, are into whatever the hell they want to be. [I admit that it's a distinct possibility that gay men in general feel freer to explore options -- art and culture, for instance -- that some straight men may cut themselves off from out of their own fears and insecurities. But let me make it clear that there are many hetero men who are not ashamed to be seen at the ballet or opera -- good for them! -- and some gay men who wouldn't be caught dead in such venues. Too bad!]
The emergence of bear culture means that the definition of attractiveness has been expanded to include men that the more stereotypical gay males supposedly eschew: hairy guys, chubby guys, guys who don't dress in color-coordinated outfits or designer clothing. People are learning that there's more to the gay male community than willowy young queens [not to put those guys down].
Don't look at this as a bad thing. People need to learn that gay men come in all shapes, sizes, and attitudes. We are literally everywhere!
Bear culture will not supplant or destroy non-bear gay culture. It will compliment it.
Butch or femme, feel free to be yourself. And recognize that everyone has a special niche in the gay community.
And that we're all gay brothers.
Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Getting "defensive"
As noted previously, I will occasionally respond to a longer comment on a post by starting a new post. This comment was in response to my post on Gay Men, Women, and "Sexual Fluidity:"
Dear Bill, I am very disappointed that we will not be able to continue our discussion in person. I stopped posting because I was invited to be a discussant at the gay/bi debate at the LGBT Center in NYC this Wednesday at 8 PM, and I asked that you be one of the gay discussants, so I thought I would be able to talk to you in person. How unfortunate that you are traveling.
You have illustrated my point exactly in this discussion. Prejudice and privilege is when it is assumed that bad things happen to people because of their inherent badness. I know it is a weird thing for a gay person to wrap his head around the notion that he has gay privilege, but relative to bisexuals and transgender people you do. The things I said to you were all that you were biphobic, or had internalized biphobia. However, you called me rigid, resentful, negative, etc., and let through a comment about posters (and since, I was nearly the only poster, this has to be about me)"can you imagine being attracted to both men and women and you still can't get laid on Saturday night?"
Therefore, I am a bad bisexual, and everything a gay person or Lesbian has ever done to me is my fault; the badness lies in me and my sexual orientation. I challenge you, since you cannot be there, to ask a friend or friends of yours to go to the talk and judge me as a person. See how bitter, resentful, angry, ugly, and unable to get dates I really am (oh, and you also called me immature - I'm 55 years old, BTW). Or are you afraid to see that just maybe gay people do really ugly things to perfectly nice bisexuals, just because they can (just like your insults and name-calling of me illustrates)?
I didn't really engage in what you label "name-calling." I made some judgment calls based on your tone and what you had to say, but I didn't call you "names" like fag or dyke. Frankly, if I called you "rigid" or "resentful" etc. it wasn't name-calling, that was simply how you came across. I have certainly never said that you were a "bad bisexual" or a "bad" anything else. Show me one occasion when I said that it was bad to be bisexual or that bisexuals were bad people! I didn't say what you wanted me to say so that makes me a "bad homosexual guy" in your mind, I guess. Therefore since you see me as a bad, supposedly bi-hating gay guy, that must mean that I see you as a "bad bisexual." Nonsense.
I have a feeling that you're a "late bloomer" because you carry the self-absorbed angst and the jump-to-conclusions attitude that you normally find in the very young, so I suspect you came to terms with your sexuality comparatively recently. [And let me make it clear that immaturity has nothing to do with age.] So while initially I was quite surprised that you're actually older than I am, I think that, in part, explains why I came to my erroneous conclusion. I could be wrong, but I also suspect that at one time you were in love with a lesbian and got very hurt when she broke it off. You're convinced it was because you were bisexual. Maybe. Maybe she didn't buy it, couldn't understand it, or maybe she "just wasn't that into you." I'm not saying it was your fault, or hers, but perhaps you just have to understand that in both gay and straight relationships sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. I believe there are many bi-identified individuals who are actually in loving, long-time relationships with gay partners.
I, on the other hand, came out in my twenties and was active in the country's first militant gay rights organization, New York's Gay Activists Alliance. [Perhaps the "privilege" that you think you sense in me has more to do with the fact that I've been in this struggle for many more decades that the vast majority of my few detractors.] The president at the time that I joined GAA was bisexual. I don't recall he, I, or anyone else in the group wanting to fight for special privileges just for homosexuals while excluding bisexuals or transsexuals. You hate to hear this, you've been so spoon-fed wrong-headed data by insecure people with agendas, but you just don't have your facts straight [no pun intended].
As far as the person who left the comment about "not getting dates" -- for heavens sake, how paranoid can you be? You were not the only person who left comments and I'm pretty sure the guy was just making a joke and not singling you or anyone else out. I doubt if he even knows you. You continuously fail to see that I have an irreverent sense of humor, possibly because you have none?
Where is it written that all queers have to automatically agree with each other or else they're "phobic" this or "phobic" that? Can there be no questioning, no intelligent discourse, has no one the right to be on occasion politically incorrect or a doubting Thomas about this, that, or the other? This may infuriate you, but you should check out my post on my brother blog about the LGBT community and NPD.
It is my passionate belief that bisexuals and transsexuals, like homosexuals, face far more danger from the religious right and others like them, from all those who hate queers of all stripes, than they do from gay people who may relate more -- understandably -- to other gays than they do to bi's or transsexuals. I see nothing controversial in that viewpoint, but apparently others disagree.
As for that forum you refer to. Funny, how it was never listed in the LGBT center's list of upcoming events. Now I'd sound as paranoid as you if I suggested the whole thing was a set-up, wouldn't I? Believe me, I have been to enough forums over the years -- where people are supposed to have an intelligent, rational discussion -- where all it takes is a couple of irrational people unable to control their emotions to turn the whole thing into a tiresome shouting match. And to turn into a grim, humorless affair and a total bore.
I have a life outside the Internet. I generally allow people to leave comments and send emails, but that doesn't mean I want to continue the discussion out in the real world. Especially with people who for one reason or another may not always be entirely rational on a given subject.
Dear Bill, I am very disappointed that we will not be able to continue our discussion in person. I stopped posting because I was invited to be a discussant at the gay/bi debate at the LGBT Center in NYC this Wednesday at 8 PM, and I asked that you be one of the gay discussants, so I thought I would be able to talk to you in person. How unfortunate that you are traveling.
You have illustrated my point exactly in this discussion. Prejudice and privilege is when it is assumed that bad things happen to people because of their inherent badness. I know it is a weird thing for a gay person to wrap his head around the notion that he has gay privilege, but relative to bisexuals and transgender people you do. The things I said to you were all that you were biphobic, or had internalized biphobia. However, you called me rigid, resentful, negative, etc., and let through a comment about posters (and since, I was nearly the only poster, this has to be about me)"can you imagine being attracted to both men and women and you still can't get laid on Saturday night?"
Therefore, I am a bad bisexual, and everything a gay person or Lesbian has ever done to me is my fault; the badness lies in me and my sexual orientation. I challenge you, since you cannot be there, to ask a friend or friends of yours to go to the talk and judge me as a person. See how bitter, resentful, angry, ugly, and unable to get dates I really am (oh, and you also called me immature - I'm 55 years old, BTW). Or are you afraid to see that just maybe gay people do really ugly things to perfectly nice bisexuals, just because they can (just like your insults and name-calling of me illustrates)?
I didn't really engage in what you label "name-calling." I made some judgment calls based on your tone and what you had to say, but I didn't call you "names" like fag or dyke. Frankly, if I called you "rigid" or "resentful" etc. it wasn't name-calling, that was simply how you came across. I have certainly never said that you were a "bad bisexual" or a "bad" anything else. Show me one occasion when I said that it was bad to be bisexual or that bisexuals were bad people! I didn't say what you wanted me to say so that makes me a "bad homosexual guy" in your mind, I guess. Therefore since you see me as a bad, supposedly bi-hating gay guy, that must mean that I see you as a "bad bisexual." Nonsense.
I have a feeling that you're a "late bloomer" because you carry the self-absorbed angst and the jump-to-conclusions attitude that you normally find in the very young, so I suspect you came to terms with your sexuality comparatively recently. [And let me make it clear that immaturity has nothing to do with age.] So while initially I was quite surprised that you're actually older than I am, I think that, in part, explains why I came to my erroneous conclusion. I could be wrong, but I also suspect that at one time you were in love with a lesbian and got very hurt when she broke it off. You're convinced it was because you were bisexual. Maybe. Maybe she didn't buy it, couldn't understand it, or maybe she "just wasn't that into you." I'm not saying it was your fault, or hers, but perhaps you just have to understand that in both gay and straight relationships sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. I believe there are many bi-identified individuals who are actually in loving, long-time relationships with gay partners.
I, on the other hand, came out in my twenties and was active in the country's first militant gay rights organization, New York's Gay Activists Alliance. [Perhaps the "privilege" that you think you sense in me has more to do with the fact that I've been in this struggle for many more decades that the vast majority of my few detractors.] The president at the time that I joined GAA was bisexual. I don't recall he, I, or anyone else in the group wanting to fight for special privileges just for homosexuals while excluding bisexuals or transsexuals. You hate to hear this, you've been so spoon-fed wrong-headed data by insecure people with agendas, but you just don't have your facts straight [no pun intended].
As far as the person who left the comment about "not getting dates" -- for heavens sake, how paranoid can you be? You were not the only person who left comments and I'm pretty sure the guy was just making a joke and not singling you or anyone else out. I doubt if he even knows you. You continuously fail to see that I have an irreverent sense of humor, possibly because you have none?
Where is it written that all queers have to automatically agree with each other or else they're "phobic" this or "phobic" that? Can there be no questioning, no intelligent discourse, has no one the right to be on occasion politically incorrect or a doubting Thomas about this, that, or the other? This may infuriate you, but you should check out my post on my brother blog about the LGBT community and NPD.
It is my passionate belief that bisexuals and transsexuals, like homosexuals, face far more danger from the religious right and others like them, from all those who hate queers of all stripes, than they do from gay people who may relate more -- understandably -- to other gays than they do to bi's or transsexuals. I see nothing controversial in that viewpoint, but apparently others disagree.
As for that forum you refer to. Funny, how it was never listed in the LGBT center's list of upcoming events. Now I'd sound as paranoid as you if I suggested the whole thing was a set-up, wouldn't I? Believe me, I have been to enough forums over the years -- where people are supposed to have an intelligent, rational discussion -- where all it takes is a couple of irrational people unable to control their emotions to turn the whole thing into a tiresome shouting match. And to turn into a grim, humorless affair and a total bore.
I have a life outside the Internet. I generally allow people to leave comments and send emails, but that doesn't mean I want to continue the discussion out in the real world. Especially with people who for one reason or another may not always be entirely rational on a given subject.
Thursday, July 2, 2009
Weighty Matters
Why are lesbians disproportionately overweight compared to straight women? I have no evidence of this but in my experience it seems to be true. Anon,
Yikes -- talk about stereotyping! I don't know about your experience but I've seen and met lesbians of all shapes and sizes and have not seen any indication that most are overweight as compared to heterosexual women. As well, the "butch" stereotype only accounts for a small percentage of gay women. As I've said many times, the gay community is not only very diverse, but most gay people -- male and female -- do not conform to stereotypes, be they "nelly queens" or "butch, heavyset lesbians." These people exist, of course, and are entitled to as much respect as anyone else, but they are hardly the whole community.
I think many people, gay and straight, have trouble getting past stereotypes because A.) they are unaware of how really large (and I'm not referring to weight, LOL) the gay community is and B.) they see gay people as all resembling themselves [if they're gay] or the couple of gay friends they may have [if they're not].
Gay people may have weight issues, but no more so than the rest of the population.
Yikes -- talk about stereotyping! I don't know about your experience but I've seen and met lesbians of all shapes and sizes and have not seen any indication that most are overweight as compared to heterosexual women. As well, the "butch" stereotype only accounts for a small percentage of gay women. As I've said many times, the gay community is not only very diverse, but most gay people -- male and female -- do not conform to stereotypes, be they "nelly queens" or "butch, heavyset lesbians." These people exist, of course, and are entitled to as much respect as anyone else, but they are hardly the whole community.
I think many people, gay and straight, have trouble getting past stereotypes because A.) they are unaware of how really large (and I'm not referring to weight, LOL) the gay community is and B.) they see gay people as all resembling themselves [if they're gay] or the couple of gay friends they may have [if they're not].
Gay people may have weight issues, but no more so than the rest of the population.
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
Gay Men and Divas
Why do gay men have a fascination with divas, actresses, Bette Davis, Madonna, and the like? Is it because they want to be them? Anon.
First of all, whenever you talk about gay men, the word "some" should always be used as a prefix. Some gay men may have a fascination with certain, as you call them, divas or movie stars, but certainly not all or even most. These gay men tend to be the more flamboyant members of the community.
Second, Gay men are men; they have no desire to be women. You're confusing homosexuals with transsexuals, or at least you're confusing the average gay man with a drag queen (or gay transvestite). Most gay men are not drag queens and have no interest in dressing up or posing as a member of the opposite sex. There are drag queens (as well as heterosexual transvestites or female impersonators) who dress up as famous women either as part of their act if they're entertainers, or as a homage to someone they are a fan of.
Lastly, both Madonna and Bette Davis have heterosexual fans.
There are many, many gay men who not only have no fascination with divas, but -- believe it or not -- no particular interest in any aspect of show biz. There are gay men who like sports, camping, back-packing, computers, hardware, electronics, hunting etc. etc.
Let's get past the stereotypes. We are a very diverse bunch of fellows.
First of all, whenever you talk about gay men, the word "some" should always be used as a prefix. Some gay men may have a fascination with certain, as you call them, divas or movie stars, but certainly not all or even most. These gay men tend to be the more flamboyant members of the community.
Second, Gay men are men; they have no desire to be women. You're confusing homosexuals with transsexuals, or at least you're confusing the average gay man with a drag queen (or gay transvestite). Most gay men are not drag queens and have no interest in dressing up or posing as a member of the opposite sex. There are drag queens (as well as heterosexual transvestites or female impersonators) who dress up as famous women either as part of their act if they're entertainers, or as a homage to someone they are a fan of.
Lastly, both Madonna and Bette Davis have heterosexual fans.
There are many, many gay men who not only have no fascination with divas, but -- believe it or not -- no particular interest in any aspect of show biz. There are gay men who like sports, camping, back-packing, computers, hardware, electronics, hunting etc. etc.
Let's get past the stereotypes. We are a very diverse bunch of fellows.
Sunday, February 1, 2009
The Invisible Minority
Recently out gay guy here. I don't know why this freaks me out so much, but I've been thinking lately that it's mostly just impossible to figure out who's gay unless they tell you. I mean, aside from very stereotypical gay men. Every time I look at a guy, I wonder about him. I mean, not just co-workers and people at the store, but relatives, friends, even married guys with kids as you've mentioned. Anybody can be gay. Maybe someone more experienced like you can tell, but how can I tell who's gay? It's like we're invisible or something. J.H.
And that's the part that probably "freaks you out." Yes, until everyone feels free enough to come out of the closet, we are largely an invisible community -- except in certain urban areas, during Gay pride marches and festivals, at GLBT centers, and so on. What makes it even more confusing is that sometimes men who seem gay aren't. Or at least don't identify as such. [Adding to the confusion, of course, is the number of homosexuals who are not only in the closet, but are in serious denial as to their sexual orientation.]
It's possible that as a "more experienced" person I can sometimes pick out who's gay easier than somebody else, but it's never been an exact science. Like you said, aside from the cases when someone is very flamboyant and obvious, or totally out of the closet, it can be difficult to tell. Sometimes there are some subtle, almost indefinable giveaways. In my younger days I could often tell a guy was gay because I could see that he was checking me out. It still happens even today from time to time, thank goodness! There's just a certain way a man will look at another man if he's into guys ...
It helps to find out who's gay if you're out of the closet yourself. If another person, say a co-worker, is gay they'll be much more likely to come out to you if they know you're gay too and won't judge them.
But this very "invisibility" you mention is a troubling aspect of our very diverse community. Most gays men and lesbians do not conform to stereotypes. All we can hope for is that more and more people will feel comfortable coming out of the closet. The more people who do, the more comfortable the world at large will become with us. And that can only work in our favor.
And that's the part that probably "freaks you out." Yes, until everyone feels free enough to come out of the closet, we are largely an invisible community -- except in certain urban areas, during Gay pride marches and festivals, at GLBT centers, and so on. What makes it even more confusing is that sometimes men who seem gay aren't. Or at least don't identify as such. [Adding to the confusion, of course, is the number of homosexuals who are not only in the closet, but are in serious denial as to their sexual orientation.]
It's possible that as a "more experienced" person I can sometimes pick out who's gay easier than somebody else, but it's never been an exact science. Like you said, aside from the cases when someone is very flamboyant and obvious, or totally out of the closet, it can be difficult to tell. Sometimes there are some subtle, almost indefinable giveaways. In my younger days I could often tell a guy was gay because I could see that he was checking me out. It still happens even today from time to time, thank goodness! There's just a certain way a man will look at another man if he's into guys ...
It helps to find out who's gay if you're out of the closet yourself. If another person, say a co-worker, is gay they'll be much more likely to come out to you if they know you're gay too and won't judge them.
But this very "invisibility" you mention is a troubling aspect of our very diverse community. Most gays men and lesbians do not conform to stereotypes. All we can hope for is that more and more people will feel comfortable coming out of the closet. The more people who do, the more comfortable the world at large will become with us. And that can only work in our favor.
Tuesday, May 27, 2008
Homosexual But Not Gay?
Why do so many people who are homosexual not want to identify or be identified as gay? Murray.
Historically there have always been people who were open about their homosexuality, even in the days before the modern-day Gay Rights movement, and I think that today a much higher percentage of gay people than ever before are out of the closet and proudly identify themselves as gay. But you're right that there are still a lot of people who don't, and there are various reasons. The biggest reason is internalized homophobia, a basic shame in being homosexual that can be deeply ingrained in a person's psyche (sadly, even some out-of-the-closet gays can be victimized by self-hatred). These people may be essentially homosexual but they more or less live "straight" lives, getting married and having kids, anything to keep the world at large from knowing the truth about their sexuality. This is certainly true of the many men of all ethnic backgrounds who are on the "down low." They desire men sexually but simply aren't secure and confident enough to think of themselves as gay. One study suggested that married homosexuals have a lack of self-esteem that prevents them from coming out and challenging society's mores.
Then we have people who are bisexually active (sleeping or somehow involved with both sexes) or who at least think of themselves -- rightly or wrongly -- as being bisexual. Despite their same-sex attraction, they don't think of themselves as gay because they are also attracted to -- or are at least sexually, or in some other way, involved -- with the opposite gender. Some of these people are very pro-gay, however, feeling a unity with gays, while others (hypocritically) think of gay men as "fags."
Then we have homosexual men who don't identify as "gay" because they feel they don't conform to the public perception -- or stereotype -- of homosexual men. They are masculine and have no interest in the kinds of things that are supposed to fascinate gay men. They don't relate to "Madonna-loving queens" or have an interest in fashion. Many feel as I do that these men -- rather than saying they don't consider themselves "gay" (although they don't necessarily deny their homosexuality) -- would be better off being "gay" and challenging the stereotypes, helping to make clear that there is a great deal of diversity in the gay community.
Then we have homosexuals who simply prefer other labels because they somehow see themselves as being different from gays who have come before. "Post-gays," or what-not. Some are dealing with gender-identification issues that aren't easily summed up under the word "gay."
And some people just don't like the word "gay" and the frivolousness it implies. But the word, as a code for homosexual, has been around even longer than most people think and seems to be here to stay.
Historically there have always been people who were open about their homosexuality, even in the days before the modern-day Gay Rights movement, and I think that today a much higher percentage of gay people than ever before are out of the closet and proudly identify themselves as gay. But you're right that there are still a lot of people who don't, and there are various reasons. The biggest reason is internalized homophobia, a basic shame in being homosexual that can be deeply ingrained in a person's psyche (sadly, even some out-of-the-closet gays can be victimized by self-hatred). These people may be essentially homosexual but they more or less live "straight" lives, getting married and having kids, anything to keep the world at large from knowing the truth about their sexuality. This is certainly true of the many men of all ethnic backgrounds who are on the "down low." They desire men sexually but simply aren't secure and confident enough to think of themselves as gay. One study suggested that married homosexuals have a lack of self-esteem that prevents them from coming out and challenging society's mores.
Then we have people who are bisexually active (sleeping or somehow involved with both sexes) or who at least think of themselves -- rightly or wrongly -- as being bisexual. Despite their same-sex attraction, they don't think of themselves as gay because they are also attracted to -- or are at least sexually, or in some other way, involved -- with the opposite gender. Some of these people are very pro-gay, however, feeling a unity with gays, while others (hypocritically) think of gay men as "fags."
Then we have homosexual men who don't identify as "gay" because they feel they don't conform to the public perception -- or stereotype -- of homosexual men. They are masculine and have no interest in the kinds of things that are supposed to fascinate gay men. They don't relate to "Madonna-loving queens" or have an interest in fashion. Many feel as I do that these men -- rather than saying they don't consider themselves "gay" (although they don't necessarily deny their homosexuality) -- would be better off being "gay" and challenging the stereotypes, helping to make clear that there is a great deal of diversity in the gay community.
Then we have homosexuals who simply prefer other labels because they somehow see themselves as being different from gays who have come before. "Post-gays," or what-not. Some are dealing with gender-identification issues that aren't easily summed up under the word "gay."
And some people just don't like the word "gay" and the frivolousness it implies. But the word, as a code for homosexual, has been around even longer than most people think and seems to be here to stay.
Sunday, May 11, 2008
Gay Cosmetics Line?
Do you think a make-up line specifically geared for gay men would do good business? JP.
First of all, I can't imagine many of the gay guys I know, many of whom are bears, would be interested in wearing make-up. Drag queens might buy make up, but the average gay guy is simply a guy, and like most guys, has no interest in wearing make-up. Also, we've got to get past this whole straight/gay business when it comes to men and what they like and dislike. I've already mentioned that there are straight guys who are neat, fastidious and clothes-conscious, and gay men who are slobs and couldn't care less about fashion. Some men -- gay and straight -- dye their hair as they get older; others -- again, gay and straight -- wouldn't think of it. I'm sure there are men who might wear bronzer to give themselves a tanned appearance, or some kind of cosmetic cover up to put over a blemish, but I think it has less to do with their orientation as to how much they care about their appearance. It's ridiculous to suggest that all gay men, or only gay men, care about how they look.
Not saying some cosmetics, depending on what they are, specifically geared to gay men might not sell, but if you're talking about lipstick or eye shadow I can't imagine it being a very large market, as only transvestites would have any interest in such products.
First of all, I can't imagine many of the gay guys I know, many of whom are bears, would be interested in wearing make-up. Drag queens might buy make up, but the average gay guy is simply a guy, and like most guys, has no interest in wearing make-up. Also, we've got to get past this whole straight/gay business when it comes to men and what they like and dislike. I've already mentioned that there are straight guys who are neat, fastidious and clothes-conscious, and gay men who are slobs and couldn't care less about fashion. Some men -- gay and straight -- dye their hair as they get older; others -- again, gay and straight -- wouldn't think of it. I'm sure there are men who might wear bronzer to give themselves a tanned appearance, or some kind of cosmetic cover up to put over a blemish, but I think it has less to do with their orientation as to how much they care about their appearance. It's ridiculous to suggest that all gay men, or only gay men, care about how they look.
Not saying some cosmetics, depending on what they are, specifically geared to gay men might not sell, but if you're talking about lipstick or eye shadow I can't imagine it being a very large market, as only transvestites would have any interest in such products.
Saturday, January 5, 2008
Gay Men and Lesbians
I don't mean to offend, but I always get the impression that gay men and lesbians do not like each other. I know its cliche to say that gay people hate members of the opposite sex, but I think this is different cause gay men and straight women seem to get along. Why can't gay men and lesbians get along? S in Phoenix.
Generally I think gay men and lesbians do get along as they are both subject to persecution as homosexuals. I know many gay men who have lesbian friends and vice versa. Sometimes there is a connection between gay men and straight women because both are attracted to males, but this doesn't seem to have carried over in the same way to lesbians and straight men, although certainly they can be friends as well.
So it's not so much that gay men and lesbians don't get along but that they have different interests, and in general people prefer to hang out with others like themselves. As women, lesbians feel that they have issues to deal with -- sexism, for instance -- that gay men do not have to contend with, although a link has been established between misogyny and homophobia (men who hate women often hate homosexuals because they supposedly remind them of women).
Of course some gay men can have sexist attitudes as much as their hetero counterparts. (On the other hand, many gay men are much more understanding of women, because they, too, relate to being discriminated against and looked down upon.) A few gay men have issues with lesbians in particular, primarily because they prefer the company of other (gay) men and don't form friendships with gay women and get to know them, or because they feel some lesbians have no use for men.
The reality is that the gay community is very diverse and misunderstandings between the sexes can certainly occur. But in my experience, most -- if, sadly, not all -- gay men and lesbians are perfectly respectful of one another.
Generally I think gay men and lesbians do get along as they are both subject to persecution as homosexuals. I know many gay men who have lesbian friends and vice versa. Sometimes there is a connection between gay men and straight women because both are attracted to males, but this doesn't seem to have carried over in the same way to lesbians and straight men, although certainly they can be friends as well.
So it's not so much that gay men and lesbians don't get along but that they have different interests, and in general people prefer to hang out with others like themselves. As women, lesbians feel that they have issues to deal with -- sexism, for instance -- that gay men do not have to contend with, although a link has been established between misogyny and homophobia (men who hate women often hate homosexuals because they supposedly remind them of women).
Of course some gay men can have sexist attitudes as much as their hetero counterparts. (On the other hand, many gay men are much more understanding of women, because they, too, relate to being discriminated against and looked down upon.) A few gay men have issues with lesbians in particular, primarily because they prefer the company of other (gay) men and don't form friendships with gay women and get to know them, or because they feel some lesbians have no use for men.
The reality is that the gay community is very diverse and misunderstandings between the sexes can certainly occur. But in my experience, most -- if, sadly, not all -- gay men and lesbians are perfectly respectful of one another.
About Gay Bears
What the hell is a 'bear" anyway? I've heard they're part of the gay community but I have no idea what they are or where you find one? Curious in Newport.
A bear is a member of the gay male community who tends to be non-stereotypical in most ways, an average Joe who happens to be gay. At first the bear community consisted only of working class men who seemed to fit a certain type: large, macho, hairy, bear-like men with big beards and bellies. Today there are different classifications of bears, although every bear should have some facial hair and most are masculine. Otters and wolves are slender versions of bears, while cubs are younger bears. Chubbybears are portly men and musclebears are guys with big muscles and well-developed pectorals. Bears are also classified as to the amount of body hair they possess. A very hairy guy is known as a furrybear.
Bears hang out wherever they want but they congregate in certain "bear bars" that cater to bears, as well as in social groups such as Metrobears in New York. There are also bear meets and conventions and even beauty pageants, done tongue-in-cheek of course. Some of the more traditional bears look askew at things like beauty pageants. Bears are probably the largest sub-grouping of the gay male community. There are many, many more bears than there are drag queens for instance. It may not seem that way to some, but that's because bears just look like "average" guys.
In general the bear community is very friendly and down-to-earth with no attitude. Among bears, it isn't about how young, pretty or slim you are. Bears offer an alternative to the attitude that the only attractive men are twentysomething willowy thin guys with hairless skin and pretty faces.
For more info click here.
A bear is a member of the gay male community who tends to be non-stereotypical in most ways, an average Joe who happens to be gay. At first the bear community consisted only of working class men who seemed to fit a certain type: large, macho, hairy, bear-like men with big beards and bellies. Today there are different classifications of bears, although every bear should have some facial hair and most are masculine. Otters and wolves are slender versions of bears, while cubs are younger bears. Chubbybears are portly men and musclebears are guys with big muscles and well-developed pectorals. Bears are also classified as to the amount of body hair they possess. A very hairy guy is known as a furrybear.
Bears hang out wherever they want but they congregate in certain "bear bars" that cater to bears, as well as in social groups such as Metrobears in New York. There are also bear meets and conventions and even beauty pageants, done tongue-in-cheek of course. Some of the more traditional bears look askew at things like beauty pageants. Bears are probably the largest sub-grouping of the gay male community. There are many, many more bears than there are drag queens for instance. It may not seem that way to some, but that's because bears just look like "average" guys.
In general the bear community is very friendly and down-to-earth with no attitude. Among bears, it isn't about how young, pretty or slim you are. Bears offer an alternative to the attitude that the only attractive men are twentysomething willowy thin guys with hairless skin and pretty faces.
For more info click here.
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