Dresses and Cleavage in a Bear Bar

Dr. Bill. I hang out at a bar that might be called a bear bar. Now and then a woman comes in from a bar up the street that is known as a drag queen hang-out. I say woman because I believe she is transgendered. She is probably a nice enough person, but she is, unfortunately, rather shrill, borderline obnoxious, and doesn't really fit in with the atmosphere of this bar. Worse, she walks around with money sticking out of her substantial cleavage and encourages the customers to stick money in her boobs. Many of the guys are good sports, but I find this behavior kind of sleazy, as she is not an entertainer for this bar. I'm afraid if I say anything I'll be called a bigot, but I'm also afraid if she isn't discouraged -- especially from soliciting cash -- she'll bring several of her friends to do the same thing. I have nothing against drag queens/transsexuals, but if I wanted to hang out with them I'd go to the bar where they work and hang out. What do I do? I like this bar with its masculine gay atmosphere but if it becomes a drag queen hang-out it will be ruined for me and for most of the customers.

My advice is to wait awhile and see what happens. This gal may just come in for an occasional drink, but if she continues soliciting for cash you have a right to say something to the bouncer or manager. Most gay bars (unless they're outright hustler bars) won't put up with men soliciting cash let alone women or drag queens.

Not everyone finds the drag/ transgender scene entertaining or even relevant in these "bear" days, and I can well understand that an "invasion" of drag queens/trans women would certainly change the atmosphere and dynamics of the bar. There are places that are more appropriate for drag queens. It doesn't make you a bigot if you simply prefer to hang out with guys dressed as guys. After all you are attracted to men. But don't over-react to something that may never become a problem.

Frankly -- and I'm being very politically incorrect here -- I find the drag scene a little passe, although you are right that nowadays many of these "guys" have actually transitioned into gals, although they may retain their penises. Somehow transvestism and transsexuality have become so cemented in the public's mind with homosexuality that far too many people think if you're a gay man you want to wear dresses, which is far, far from the truth. I don't believe we should be transphobic -- transsexuals don't have an easy time of it -- but if a scene is not of interest to you, it just isn't. When it comes to drag shows, for instance -- guys (or gals) in dresses lip-syncing to records -- well, I would sooner have root canal surgery without anesthetic than sit through any more of them.

Like anybody else, most drag queens are nice people and can be a lot of fun, but we certainly know that some of them can be -- well, as you put it -- "shrill and borderline obnoxious," which is true of a lot of people, of course. Because they're ignored by most of the customers, some straight women become very drunk and shrill and difficult in gay bars, and we've all seen our share of "queens" who get all loud and squealing and silly when they've had too much. The transgender community is diverse, of course, and the "shrill," overbearing, over-dressed female has become a stereotype. Not every drag queen/trans woman is like Ru Paul (not that I have anything against Ru Paul). Drag/transgender entertainers -- like any entertainer -- need attention, and if they don't get it ...

Hang tight. Chances are this gal will ultimately want to hang out where she gets more appreciation -- and money.

Boyfriend and Transgender Incident

Hey,

So I've recently been dating a guy for a couple of months. We were drinking and then he had a freak episode (hyperventilating, trying to hit himself) and then the next morning I made it clear that I needed to understand why he acted like that. He finally confided in me (he actually started hyperventilating when he was trying to tell me and he ended up having to txt me what happened) about paying for sex when he was drunk with a transgender (pre-op) when he was 19, he's 22 now. He ended up spending a year depressed and went to counseling and felt suicidal and ended up going to brothels when he was drunk as a way of confirming that he didn't like guys. He said that he got his confidence back and stopped going to brothels and ended up doing the whole teenage thing of getting drunk and going clubbing and when he got lucky slept with random girls. He's never acted in a way that showed he was attracted to guys at all. He's always checking girls out, we have a healthy sex life, he's very touchy-feely with me. he's always complimenting me etc. After he confided in me I asked him if he was possibly in the closet and he got mad that I would ever even ask him that, but I was confused as to why he had sex with a transgender so I thought it was fair to ask. He looks and feels ashamed of it, What would be your opinion ? Was it a drunken mistake or was there a reason behind it?

Thanks

I assume that when your boyfriend paid for sex with the Trans Woman he knew what he was dealing with despite his being drunk? [To make it clear a Trans Woman is a woman but a pre-operative Trans Woman still has a penis and appears masculine in other ways despite the feminine/drag trappings.]

There are conflicted homosexual men who have their first experiences either with drag queens [gay men who are also transvestites] or with pre-op Trans women. This is their way of having sex with men while "pretending" to be with a woman, or telling themselves that the Trans woman is essentially female despite the biology. If your boyfriend has negative attitudes towards homosexuality for any reason, comes from a repressive, intolerant background, he may do anything not to feel that he is gay.

Naturally I can't possibly be certain of this guy's sexuality, except to say that most gay men are not obvious, that many are perfectly capable of having sex with women [for whatever reason], and that often there are no red flags. I would be less than honest if I didn't tell you that men who are genuinely and thoroughly heterosexual don't need to sleep with women or go to brothels to prove to themselves that they are straight; they just know they are. If this incident was just a drunken mistake, I don't think your boyfriend would find it such a big deal.

You might find this post helpful.

Boyfriend Who Supposedly Acts "Gay"

My boyfriend loves to imitate gay men; he has even put on my wig and bra and paraded around the house in front of me and my sister. I told him that I was uncomfortable with that behavior and not to do it again. Several weeks later he starts acting like he is gay, snapping his fingers with his hands on his hips. Recently, we spent the night over my girlfriend's house with her and her husband -- they were delighted to have us over. Well, we started drinking and then he starting playing like he was gay and when my girlfriend told him to stop, she and her husband were uncomfortable with the behavior --  she asked him if he was gay; he laughed and said 'No, I'm a homo fag-tug fag, no.' [What? -- Dr. B] We laughed at him and he stopped with the act. Later that night us women stayed upstairs and the men stayed down stairs in the living room -- my girlfriend's husband told us the next morning that he put on my earring in front of him as a joke -- is my boyfriend gay? 

Your boyfriend may be an asshole but I'm not certain he's gay. I'm also not sure why you and your friends were uncomfortable with his behavior -- because he was stereotyping and making fun of gay men and/or confusing them with transvestites, or because you yourself are uncomfortable around gay people, especially the more stereotypical kind?

First of all, gay men do not put on wigs and bras and act all limp-wristed and girlish. That is a stereotype. Most gay men are just average, perfectly masculine guys who happen to be gay. Trust me on this -- I am, after all, a gay man and should know. Men who like to put on women's garments such as bras are transvestites, not homosexuals, and many of them are straight.

It's possible that your boyfriend isn't imitating gay men at all, but acting "campy" and silly, actually imitating women,just because he thinks it's funny. A great many comedians, straight and gay, have dressed and camped it up as women for laughs. Putting on a wig and bra to get some chuckles out of his friends hardly makes your boyfriend a true transvestite let alone a gay man.


Again, it's one thing if you and your friends object because you think he's making fun of [stereotypical] gay men -- another thing if it simply bothers you because you think he's "queer." Finally, the proper reaction to someone using the highly offensive word "fag" is to tell them to go fuck themselves!

Boyfriend is Drag Queen?

Well you probably don't remember but I contacted you earlier with some trouble about my boyfriend (a self-hating Christian); things are going well now -- I took your advice, so I talked to a friend who was also Christian, and he did help, but things sort of took a weird twist, and by weird I mean WEIRD. Well I didn't say before but he is very effeminate-looking, and from time to time he likes cross-dressing, I enjoy when he does this and help with his makeup and stuff; it's fun and I like the way he looks. At first it was just something we did behind closed doors you know, alone, but eventually a friend of ours walked in on him in a skirt. She didn't react negatively, in fact she kind of encouraged him, to the point of convincing him to take a couple of pictures posing like this. She says that they we're just for practice since she enjoys photography but, judging by how she is, those pictures might already have found their way onto the web. I was worried, but he was joyous, and aroused, and after some time in bed I forgot my worries until a bit later. A few days later I caught this friend and my boyfriend in the street, only he was wearing a skirt, a top and a small sweater. I freaked out since it wouldn't be nice if he stumbled into one of his friends that recognized him, or even worse, his parents, cos' if being gay wasn't enough I bet cross dressing will surely give his father a heart attack. I warned him but our friend simply said they were having fun; I usually could convince him but with our friend's support they convinced me to accompany them. I just looked around for someone we knew and nervously went around for the rest of the day. It was not fun and after we went back to his house I tried to talk him out of this, and just like the time of the photo shoot he used the one kind of argument I can't resist.

Now this wasn't long ago, and it's still going on, and I can't talk to him because we are either with company I can't discuss this in front of, or with our friend who somehow always manages to out talk me or alone where he can out tongue me... so he's pretty much got me on a short leash on this. I keep trying time after time to convince him but I can't and I know that doing this will eventually land him into trouble, bad trouble. I mean I haven't been around most of the time he does this but I've seen him getting complimented and flirted with, and this makes me jealous, and I have bounced a couple of guys but apparently when it's just him and our friend he does flirt with them, and this also makes me mad. I need to talk to him, but I don't really know how to proceed... by the next time I see him I very much need to snap him out of this mad stuff!

Final note: I talked this over with one of my more mature and smart friends, he said something that seemed very interesting, that he may do this in order to attract attention from men -- is this logical? Why do you think he does this?

Well, my best guess is he does this because he's a drag queen -- a gay man who's also a transvestite [someone who gets off on wearing women's clothing and/or in having a female persona.] Some drag queens feel a need to live most of their lives -- at least [in their opinion] their real lives -- as women. They are not transsexuals, as such [perhaps some are], but they do have a strong female identification.

I'm not entirely certain why this troubles you so much since you have no problem with him being effeminate. Of course, there's a big difference between a kind of "girlish" guy and a drag queen. Do you guys live in a small town? Are you afraid he (or both of you) might be gay-bashed [a problem he might face even when he's not in drag, as you say he's somewhat obviously gay]? Until both of you are comfortable with his cross-dressing, it might be better for him to do it at home or only in gay clubs. [Not bear or leather bars, however, LOL.]

If he's a bonafide, genuine transvestite, he can't help his feelings, and he shouldn't be ashamed of it, and don't help him feel ashamed. I mean, you say he's feeling better about being gay -- it sounds like he's anxious to smash the closet door right off of its hinges -- so don't turn around and give him a complex about being a cross-dresser!

Some gay men, after they come out, especially the more stereotypical members of our community, want everyone to know and go about it in the most flamboyant way possible, and I suppose this whole cross-dressing thing might just be a "gay" act he's putting on, trying to be as wild and "out" as he can be. It probably amuses him that it freaks you out.

On the other hand, he might be a legitimate "TV." A Christian drag queen? Why not? You can either deal with it or you can't.

As for wanting to attract attention from men? Well, most gay men are turned on by masculinity, not by guys in dresses, but there are exceptions. If for some bizarre and pointless reason he's trying to turn on straight guys, he's just asking for trouble, especially if he's convincing enough to pass for a "real" woman. Nothing gets a homophobic straight guy angrier than being turned on/flirted with by a woman who turns out to be a guy.

I suggest you sit down and talk with him and find out just how far he's into the drag scene, and how far into it he wants to go. Does he eventually want to live most of the time in female drag and with a female name and persona? The vast majority of gay men have absolutely no interest in dressing up in drag, but those who do really dive into it and some never come up for air. This just may be a phase for your boyfriend or it may be the real deal.

It doesn't make you a bigot if the drag thing becomes a turn off for you, but it may mean that this guy just ain't the right guy for you after all. But remember, there's nothing really wrong in being a transvestite or drag queen.

The Whole "Queen" Thing

I'm a gay guy, but I confess that I don't get the whole "queen" thing, and especially not the drag queen thing. You can slam me if you want, but that's how I feel. What is up with those guys? Anon.

I'm a little confused here. I assume you're a butch or non-stereotypical gay man -- most of us are, in fact -- and you don't understand why some gay guys are queeny? I'll proceed from that supposition. [I'll confess right now in the interest of full disclosure that some queens can drive me right up the wall, while others I find warm, friendly, gay-positive and altogether terrific. But that's true of the butch numbers as well. ]

Most if not all "queens" are gay but most gay guys are not queens. For reasons that have never quite been determined, a certain percentage of gay men are stereotypically effeminate or "swishy" to a certain degree. This may run from a mild softness or slight girlishness on occasion to full-out screaming queen mania that's on all the time.

If there's a gene to determine sexual orientation, as some studies suggest, is there also a gene to determine whether or not a gay person is butch or femme? Somehow I doubt it. I think effeminacy in men is an acquired trait. In other words, it has to do with how and by whom a man is raised and with his environment. Then again -- and here's where things really get confusing -- there are queeny gay men who have strong male role models, who are not surrounded and raised by women, and who grow up in atmospheres that aren't especially "feminine." So who knows? So let's just say that effeminacy can be an acquired trait but may not be in all cases. [And let's not forget -- Saturday Night Live jokes aside -- that there are undoubtedly effeminate heterosexual men. Not just straight-identified, but straight.]

But now we come to drag queens, men who dress up as women. In general, if these men are gay we call them drag queens; if straight -- and yes, there are heterosexual men who like to dress up as women -- we call them transvestites. In any case, most gay men are not transvestites and have zero interest in dressing up as women.

For one reason or another some gay men -- and perhaps some straight men as well -- identity with the opposite sex to such a degree that they feel in part female. This is different from a transsexual person, who can be an actual female trapped in a male body or vice versa. Undoubtedly there are TVs [transvestites] and drag queens who are unacknowledged transsexuals. An extreme identification with women can lead a man to spend much if not all of his time in drag and in a female persona. These guys may feel unattractive and colorless without the female finery; getting in drag helps them get out of their shell and develop a personality the way that imbibing a few drinks does for other people. And, strange as it sounds, this may be completely unrelated to their sexual orientation. [And some men find sexual gratification in dressing up as women.]

This is why you don't "get" drag queens. Because it isn't a gay thing as such at all. Drag queens are a part of the gay community, but they have their own special needs and purposes that most gay men can't especially relate to at all.

As for queens or femmes -- gay men who are stereotypical but aren't necessarily interested in dressing in drag -- a lot of times they pick up their flamboyant gestures and behavior by mimicking the more "outrageous" gay men they they first meet when they come out. A lot of swishy behavior is just acting, camping it up. A snide homophobe may think that beneath every butch number there's a queen but the truth is that sometimes it's just the opposite. Some guys act effeminate simply because that's what they think gay guys do. If they get involved with the more masculine side of gay culture, they may drop the whole swish thing, although if they're old enough it may have become such a large part of who they are that it becomes impossible to change.

But as I've said before, butch or femme, we're all gay brothers, each with our own unique way of expressing ourselves.

Macho or swishy, drag queen or leather king, sports fan or Broadway enthusiast, we don't necessarily have to "get" each other.

But respect each other we must, for divided we will definitely fall.

Gay Men and Divas

Why do gay men have a fascination with divas, actresses, Bette Davis, Madonna, and the like? Is it because they want to be them? Anon.

First of all, whenever you talk about gay men, the word "some" should always be used as a prefix. Some gay men may have a fascination with certain, as you call them, divas or movie stars, but certainly not all or even most. These gay men tend to be the more flamboyant members of the community.

Second, Gay men are men; they have no desire to be women. You're confusing homosexuals with transsexuals, or at least you're confusing the average gay man with a drag queen (or gay transvestite). Most gay men are not drag queens and have no interest in dressing up or posing as a member of the opposite sex. There are drag queens (as well as heterosexual transvestites or female impersonators) who dress up as famous women either as part of their act if they're entertainers, or as a homage to someone they are a fan of.

Lastly, both Madonna and Bette Davis have heterosexual fans.

There are many, many gay men who not only have no fascination with divas, but -- believe it or not -- no particular interest in any aspect of show biz. There are gay men who like sports, camping, back-packing, computers, hardware, electronics, hunting etc. etc.

Let's get past the stereotypes. We are a very diverse bunch of fellows.

Gay does not = Drag

No offense, but why do gay men like to dress up as women? Anon.

No offense, but generally we don't You're confusing homosexuals with transvestites, many of whom are actually heterosexual. When a man is both a homosexual and a transvestite (or cross-dresser), we call him a "drag queen." Drag queen culture is very colorful, which is why it seems so prominent in the gay scene. During Gay Pride parades and marches, the cameras will often zoom in on the drag queens and other colorful participants and ignore the more "ordinary" gay people. For the same reason the gay media often presents a disproportionate amount of cross-dresser portrayals in movies and documentaries. Some "drag queens" may be transsexuals who are in various stages of transitioning from (biological) male to female.

Drag queens are only a small percentage of the gay community although the media may make it seem as if most, if not all, gay men are drag queens. In truth, most gay men are very happy as men, have no real "identification" with females (as many drag queens do), and have no desire to dress up as women. Many feel the gay community would be quite a bit duller without its drag queens while some butch gay guys get awfully tired of the constant confusion between gays and transvestites.